Hey there.

Elisa Louis [00:00:10]:

Welcome to get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast where bulk ingredient conversation happens. We’re sharing our knowledge and expertise as bulk ingredient importers, tapping into the latest trends we are seeing and commenting on what that means for natural food businesses as they approach ingredient purchasing, product development, and marketing. You’ll hear the latest market reports, ingredient specifications and product applications from Smerk’s in house experts, as well as origin stories from our growers and processors around the world. Listen in for the scoop on what’s happening with bulk ingredients.

Elisa Louis [00:00:50]:

Hello and welcome back to get the scoop with Smirk’s. We’re thrilled to bring you episode 18. And yeah, I know it’s been a while, but we’re back. So today I’m joined by my colleagues, Jessica Warden, VP of Sales, Business Development, and Garrett McBride, our VP of Operations. And in this episode, we’re diving into the fall 2025 harvest. I know, it’s crazy. We’re already here. We are getting into football season.

Elisa Louis [00:01:18]:

We’re somehow thinking about leaves changing and Halloween and all those things. It doesn’t feel like we’re there yet, but we are, folks. And we’re going to be covering bulk organic and conventional nuts, seeds, grains, coconut and dried fruits. And this time of year, there’s a lot of buzz happening because bulk ingredient users want to know what’s happening. They want to know what the projections are for the coming season. So our goal today is really to give you some clear takeaways. We want to talk to you about what’s happening with supply and demand, the pricing outlook, why the market is moving the way that it is, recommendations for coverage and contracting. So those are the key things.

Elisa Louis [00:02:06]:

And the Smirk’s team doesn’t have a crystal ball, but we’ll do our best to provide insights on the markets based on the intel that we have now. And we’re also going to dive into tariffs, who pays them, how Smurx is handling them, and most importantly, how we’re keeping our customers in the loop. So without further ado, Jessica and Garrett, I say grab your scoop and let’s dig in. Oh, no.

Jessica Warden [00:02:34]:

This is exciting. Elisa, glad to be here. Glad to be here, Garrett. As Elisa mentioned, fall is always such a really dynamic time, both inside of the food supply chain, but also I just one of my favorite seasons. Personally, I can’t believe that it’s already, gosh, that we’re here, but it’ll be Christmas before we know it. And so before that happens, let’s get some information out there for all of our friends and the old food supply.

Garrett McBride [00:03:03]:

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me too. I’m excited to be here. It’s been a while. We need to get our shops back.

Garrett McBride [00:03:08]:

From an operations perspective, this is when.

Garrett McBride [00:03:10]:

Things really heat up.

Garrett McBride [00:03:11]:

This is the fun time of year. We’re busy coordinating supply chains, monitoring crop quality, making sure that we’re positioned in a way that we can support our customers adequately. There’s definitely plenty to talk about this season.

Elisa Louis [00:03:25]:

All right, well, before we jump into the market reports Garrett, I’m hoping you can really shed some light on an important topic on a lot of people’s minds. How do tariffs on imported ingredients impact buyers? And how is Smirk’s handling these types of changes that are going on right now?

Garrett McBride [00:03:44]:

As often as we possibly can, our customers are informed about the pricing changes as a result of the tariffs that have been imposed by the federal government. In order to make your lives easier, our customers lives easier, we are able to break out the tariff costs separately as a completely unique line item from the product costs on order confirmations. Just to be aware, Smirk’s doesn’t mark up the tariffs. We’re not in business to gouge as a result of these incremental costs. These are a pass through whatever Smirk’s is charged. We charge our customers straight through. Our goal is to keep our customers to keep you informed, confident, and feeling supported. And as always, we welcome any questions about the tariffs and the pricings because it is a confusing landscape to navigate.

Jessica Warden [00:04:31]:

Yep, definitely.

Elisa Louis [00:04:32]:

Thanks so much for giving us that rundown, Garrett. I know it can be pretty confusing and let’s face it, tariffs are influencing buying patterns when one country’s tariff is lower than another or sourcing can shift pretty quickly. With this in mind, Smirk’s is also just keep in mind that we also offer domestically produced ingredients and it’s starting to be the case that sometimes the US Products are becoming more competitive than the imported products these days. So that’s something to keep in mind and I just as soon jump right into it here. Let’s get into the heart of the matter. First off, love to chat about nuts. So what are we seeing right now in terms of the organic and conventional nut market? Jessica, what are you saying?

Jessica Warden [00:05:28]:

It’s actually a really interesting time in the nut market in the sense that we would have expected to be knee deep in almond and walnut contracts. And in some cases folks are right. There’s some coverage and some stuff on the books, but there’s also a little bit of uncertainty happening, especially in almonds. And so I know Garrett will touch on that a little bit. But like with walnuts, the crop is looking good. There was some favorable outlook, great weather, a lot of good news around the bloom, but we’re just starting to see where I think coming off of last year’s very tight crop and supply. It’s all good news, but it’s one of those things where it’s still just as shy, a little bit early, where the walnut objective measurement report usually comes out early September. So we’re just about a week early here with this information.

Jessica Warden [00:06:27]:

But everything that we’re seeing is pointing to better circumstances than last year. But coverage is still at a slight premium because there was such a shortfall last year. So keep us in mind as you start to plan for walnuts in the sense that here in the next couple of weeks is actually going to be a really good time to continue to dive back into that market.

Elisa Louis [00:06:50]:

Awesome. So the Smirk’s team will keep everybody posted on that one. And moving right along. I’d like to chat a little bit about hazelnuts. I had a great conversation with Troy Johnson, the president of Hazelnut Growers of Oregon. And he spent 30 years in the nut business and closely following hazelnuts, so definitely appreciate his. Exactly. Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:07:17]:

So he gave me some scoop. And the organic and conventional numbers for hazelnuts are combined. So just so you know, when we talk these numbers, it’s both. So the Turkish crop is like 480,000 metric tons with 150,000 metric ton carryover, but that’s down from 920,000 metric overall crop last year. Yeah, so I mean, he says it’s really. There’s a lot of combinations happening here, but it’s due to frost, bugs and drought in the main growing areas in Turkey and Turkish, interest rates are just sky high and the processors also can’t afford the bank financing to go out and buy the nuts. So unless they have the cash on hand, that’s another tough situation that’s happening. And just in general, the crop is late and there’s a significant number of blanks on the trees.

Elisa Louis [00:08:17]:

So you’re probably not surprised to hear that as well because a lot of us have already heard the fact that some of the growing areas in Turkey have impacted the apricot and the fig growing areas, but it’s really the same situation that we’re facing here. So, I mean, at lower elevations, the crop was fair bit better, but still not great better. In the higher elevations though, Italy is like 50% of its normal production and it’s like the third biggest producer in the world. The Chilean crop is good, but that said, they have a lower processing capacity. So this year it’s actually looking like the USA is expecting a record crop of 119,000 metric tons, which is like 34% higher than last year. So domestic processors are going to really try to balance out the demand for this item and the USA could be a great option for high quality product this year.

Garrett McBride [00:09:29]:

Yeah, that’s great news.

Elisa Louis [00:09:31]:

Yeah. So, I mean, that’s. There’s a silver lining.

Jessica Warden [00:09:34]:

Thing I’ve learned just over the last couple years, kind of sitting in on some of these like PTMPA pieces, is that the varietals are changing in the US Growing regions, so they’re a little bit more robust. And they’ve had to really deal with some of the varietals that were susceptible to like a very specific bug that I can’t remember off the top of my head now, but that should help. And obviously we’re seeing it in the numbers. And then the other really fun part is that some of the varietals can now start to be blanched, which was always the tough thing with the US option, was that it had a hard time being blanched and coming through that process. So that would be one to keep watching. I think it’ll be fun to see what happens with US hazelnuts there.

Elisa Louis [00:10:17]:

It definitely will. And the indication is that they really want to try to service the market. They want to try to put out a reasonable price because they want this product to continue to grow and they feel like there’s an opportunity for hazelnuts to have their moment. Yeah. So, I mean, the processors are going to do their best from the US perspective to get out a reasonable price that people can still bear and still grow the market because they see that the product could very well have its moment the way pistachios have had. And that’s kind of their perspective. But in brief, the recommendation is really, if you’re going to get Turkish products, seek coverage sooner than later because near the end of the season they just may not be able to come through with the product, unfortunately. And then you can be booking pretty much year round for USA products.

Elisa Louis [00:11:18]:

So that’s again the bright spot in the market.

Jessica Warden [00:11:22]:

Shameless sales plug. We have a little bit of organic Turkish on hand now, so give your trader a ring if you need some short term immediate coverage.

Elisa Louis [00:11:31]:

There you go.

Garrett McBride [00:11:32]:

Lock it up.

Jessica Warden [00:11:33]:

Yes.

Elisa Louis [00:11:33]:

Yeah, exactly. Great. Well, speaking of that almond market that Jessica alluded to, let’s dive right into it. Garrett, what do you have for us?

Garrett McBride [00:11:45]:

You bet, yeah. The same growing conditions, the positive growing conditions that Jessica mentioned around walnuts were, are the factors in play for almonds as well. In the Central Valley of California, it was a really good year for beef. Light for weather. Conditions were really great. However, there’s some contradictory information flying around out there about almonds. USDA released their objective report a few weeks back and they were predicting a massive crop, a 3 billion pound crop waiting to be harvested, which is great news for buyers. However, those in the almond world are convinced that the USDA number is severely overstated.

Garrett McBride [00:12:22]:

Their estimates within the almond industry are more in the 2.6 to 2.8 billion pound range. So we’ll have to see what shakes off. Literally. The harvest is currently underway and then with minimal carry in, most sellers are not on the market until they see what actually comes off the trees. So in the next three to four weeks or so, the situation should become a bit more clear. And we’re pulling for £3 billion.

Jessica Warden [00:12:49]:

Yep. And I mean, that’s one thing to note there too is the organic market is such a small composition or a makeup of that larger number. And so that’s even been projected to be slightly tighter and you’ve got some, not nearly as many players in that game. So we’re seeing organic pretty firm right now and like Garrett said, not a lot of carryover. So not a lot of offers, not a lot of even stocks where people were holding stuff to carry them through new crops. So that’s one we’re watching pretty closely because we do have a lot of interest early, but not a lot of folks ready to make some offers and get some stuff booked.

Elisa Louis [00:13:28]:

So the two of you are your thoughts basically to get in touch with Smirk’s and say, hey, I’m going to be needing this amount or this amount and as soon as you can put an offer in front of me, do so. Is that your recommendation, especially for organic?

Jessica Warden [00:13:44]:

I would definitely say so. It’s like trying to get into that new restaurant that’s opening and you want to get on the wait list so that you’re first in line for that phone call. That’s what we’re doing here, I think.

Garrett McBride [00:13:54]:

Yeah.

Garrett McBride [00:13:54]:

Bring your forecast so we can, we can have some productive conversations around the planning pieces and then as soon as the market opens up a bit, we’ll have a, hopefully a jump on competition.

Elisa Louis [00:14:05]:

Perfect. Awesome. Well, thanks for that important update on almonds and, and Jessica. We’ve all heard about the Dubai chocolate craze. It’s wild. So how has that really affected the pistachio market. And what do you see like going forward for this season?

Jessica Warden [00:14:22]:

Well, I mean, depending on who you chat with, you get some people who are like, oh yeah, that’s a fad that’s worked its way to its peak and is on its downward trend. And then I think it’s also still a little bit to be determined because you’re coming into the holiday like season. So obviously most of the production has been done for some of that stuff. But I think it’ll be interesting to see the consumer sentiments through the holiday around Dubai Chocolate, see how much it continues to carry and then that’ll be timed obviously with new crops. So it’s just kind of interesting. I for one am still loving the Dubai chocolate and I like that there’s like 10 different options in the grocery store that you can get at anyone any one time. Like, yes, they don’t mind if I do try this new Dubai Chocolate. So but I think what’s it’s been interesting and whether it’s Dubai chocolate or some other thing, I think one of the things the pistachio especially some of the big players here in the US have done is just develop a market around that item.

Jessica Warden [00:15:22]:

So if it’s not going into Dubai Chocolate, there’s always some outlet that they are really pushing. And so it’s one of our favorite premium nuts. And so the crop is this is basically you, you see an on year, off year. Last year was a little bit of an off year relative to output. So this is what you, what folks say is an on year. So in shell production is estimated to about 726,000 metric tons and it represents a 44% increase from last season. So that kind of shows you that on off year. And the other thing that’s very interesting right now is that export demand has been pretty subdued in these early or in these last couple months.

Jessica Warden [00:16:05]:

We’re in the same position as almonds and walnuts where not everything has really shaken out and harvest is just kind of starting to get underway. So a lot of these numbers are preliminary projections. But between the increase in supply and the demand from overseas being a little subdued, even with the tight carryover from last year, we’re in a pretty good position. So right now it’s a really great time for buyers where we have some high incoming supply, some soft near term export demand creates a pretty favorable environment for securing some of those forward and spot contracts and really maybe getting some much better pricing, especially relative to the surges in pricing that we saw at the end of this last year. And I mean, if you were to ask somebody for pistachios right now, there’s just really none to be found. So I know people are. Are waiting with bated breath that, you know, availability and so that they can make some more Dubai chocolate, I think, is what it’s all about. So.

Garrett McBride [00:17:03]:

Sounds like that’s about to change.

Elisa Louis [00:17:06]:

Right on. Well, thanks for that. Good stuff. And I’m really curious about pecans. I mean, Garrett, maybe you can enlighten us, because the growing regions were hit pretty hard by Hurricane Helene in September last year. And from what I understand, I mean, a lot of the mature trees were lost. So that said, what are they predicting kind of going forward? What’s that look like?

Garrett McBride [00:17:31]:

Yeah, you’re correct. I mean, between the hurricane losses on the east coast and the fact that it isn’t off season this year, pecan markets are expected to remain pretty firm throughout the coming year. 2025 crop is expected to be about 22 to 25% less than last year in 2024, but demand continues to increase. So obviously we’re moving in different directions there, and it’s not. Not helping. From a cost ability standpoint. Organic pecans will be even more constrained. It’s a proportionality game.

Garrett McBride [00:18:04]:

There’s only so many organic trees and orchards in existence, and they represent a certain portion of the entire capacity. And when the entire capacity is low, the entire capacity of the organic crop is low as well. We recommend those who are planning to consume large quantities of pecans, especially when it comes to organic, should probably lock in most of their needs for the coming years. Year and the next few months to ensure availability. It’s going to be a tough one.

Jessica Warden [00:18:32]:

Yeah. I mean, and I think one of the things that we’ve seen is pricing has been pretty firm as we’ve ended the season. And so sometimes people hesitate to cover because they see prices kind of high. But I definitely don’t think there’s really a lot where we’re poised for a major softening or a major correction. So if you’re able to get bookings now at kind of today’s pricing, I think it’s pretty indicative of what we’ll see even as new crop availability comes forward.

Garrett McBride [00:18:58]:

So it’s probably not going to get better.

Jessica Warden [00:19:01]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:19:02]:

Sounds like reasonable advice in these times for pecans. Good to know. All right. Well, Jessica, what are we hearing about pine nuts this season? I mean, I’m always just so amazed when I see the image of the collectors climbing the trees to grab the Cones. It just blows my mind. And it’s just not surprising that it’s such a premium product. But what can we really expect this coming season?

Jessica Warden [00:19:31]:

I think the summer season is really going to be interesting in that last season cedars were had an off year and the red variety kind of made up the difference. We’re hearing that cedars are having a similar crop size as last year. So again, not anticipated to be a large crop. But we’re also hearing that the red pine nut crop will be smaller than last year. So where there was a little bit of gap made up or coverage gap made up by the other variety, we might not see that as much this year. Couple that with the fact that there’s such heavy tariffs being levied against anything that’s grown in China. It makes the Yunnan option not necessarily cost prohibitive, but certainly not where it was in the past. And so what we’re seeing is the varieties that are grown maybe in Mongolia or other areas that are then processed in China are offering the best value, but they’re just not quite as plentiful.

Jessica Warden [00:20:31]:

So we’ll definitely be watching that. Market pricing has surged over the last couple of weeks even, but I mean, that’s pine nuts for you. They’re probably one of the most volatile commodities that we follow. And so again, that’s a. This is what we know right now and we’ll keep watching it. We at SMURC still have a pretty decent coverage and supply available in warehouse from current crop. And we’ll be working on planning for forward coverage. But that’s definitely one of those ones that’s like cover what you need and maybe don’t jump out too, too far in the future unless you’re just really sure that you’re going to need like the seeder specifically or you know, a specific varietal that you want to make sure to get before coverage isn’t available.

Elisa Louis [00:21:15]:

Appreciate those insights. Thanks so much on that. And when we turn to macadamia nuts, the landscape from macadamia nuts has just changed so much in the last couple of years. I remember back in 2023 when there was a big supply in the prices of this historical, historically premium nut had pretty much dipped into the area of being very much affordable. Then by the middle of the last year, I’d say demand started to increase and stocks tightened up. What’s it looking like for 2025 for Max?

Jessica Warden [00:21:53]:

Jessica Yeah, I mean, I definitely remember that huge drop and I was relatively new to the industry, so for me that relative change was not as shocking. Or maybe as shocking as it should have been without the context, but I actually was just looking the other day at some indications of old pricing indications I had give. I stumbled across and I saw what I was offering max for and I. My jaw hit the floor and I was just like, wow, they should have definitely bought at that price, you know. So that’s kind of max for 2025 In a nutshell, so to speak. This in the high will definitely remain tight. South Africa, which is one of our larger as a US import, that’s one of the places we get larger producing regions that we source from. So they’re seeing a decline in their crop about 4% is what’s being projected right now.

Jessica Warden [00:22:46]:

And then Australia’s harvest is down pretty substantially, so it’s abound by about 30%. So that really leaves Kenya and a couple other growing regions like Guatemala to offer some of the pressure relief for that. But it’s just going to be interesting to see because there’s just not going to be quite as much availability. And again, premium nut, premium prices, the tariffs, it all kind of just compounds really. So we don’t anticipate a lot of softening. There’s just not a lot of things indicating a market correction here in the near future. So I would say the limited availability combined with the rising trade frictions make early contracting really important. So if you haven’t looked at some of your coverage needs now, it’s definitely a great time to reach out and secure and then that will help some of those price pressure increases and then we’ll start to get some more information in early Q1 about what the next growing cycle will look like.

Jessica Warden [00:23:45]:

So really you just got to kind of plan for this time through into Q1 of next year to really get a jump on that. Smirks has some great options for organic style ones, fours and sixes arriving here in mid to late September. And then we’ll have another wave of organic Macs hitting our warehouses in late Q4. So we’re well positioned where not everything’s been allocated and contracted. So we can definitely help with some of that planning going forward.

Elisa Louis [00:24:14]:

Great news that we have availability. Awesome. So if we shift gears going into cashews, we’ve seen a lot of demand for cashews arising and I’m just looking at it thinking, Garrett, how is this shift affecting the market and what’s really happening on the supply side with cashews?

Garrett McBride [00:24:39]:

Yeah, you’re absolutely right, Elise. The global demand is definitely on the rise, led by China, India and the usa and who can blame people? It’s a great nut. Unfortunately for buyers, though, supply is not keeping pace with the demand increases. Raw nut Raw cashew nut supplies have been very difficult to come by this year for a variety of reasons, probably the biggest being the weather. African growing regions have had extreme drought and heat that’s constrained their raw cashew nut supply. Vietnam has experienced some monsoon weather patterns that resulted in excessive moisture which constrained their supply. In fact, they’re importing a lot of nuts from Cambodia. That all being said, Vietnam’s still going to show less this season, even with the imports from Cambodia than they did last year in 2024.

Garrett McBride [00:25:29]:

So it’s going to be a somewhat challenging year for cashews from a raw material standpoint elsewhere in the world. The reciprocal tariff situation here in the US is functionally removed Brazil’s cashew volume from play, which is so cost prohibitive, especially when it comes to organic nuts. These tariffs have just put a lot of additional pressure on the market and made a challenging situation that much more difficult to navigate. Right now, whole kernels are pretty readily available. Broken grades are getting harder and harder to source. So our recommendation, if you’re buying or in the market for cashews, bring us your forecast. Now let’s evaluate what’s available, what we anticipate being available, get your contracts set up so that we can ensure that you have adequate supply for the coming year. Regardless of what happens, let us leverage our long term existing supply partners and options for you.

Elisa Louis [00:26:28]:

Sounds like great advice. Appreciate that. Update on cashews and I’m going to give us an update on Brazil nuts. I know the harvest season normally runs like December to April across Brazil, Bolivia and Peru, and it peaks like January through March. There have been some major disruptions though. The 2025 harvest was hit pretty hard by an extreme drought in the Amazon. And then you couple that with political and economic turmoil going on in Bolivia, who’s the largest exporter. It’s been challenging.

Elisa Louis [00:27:07]:

They’ve had actually violent competition for raw material collectors. And also those raw material collectors are being restricted due to illegal mining going on in some of the areas. So it’s been a real challenge. Plus the fact that there’s a severe foreign currency shortage really since 2024, which is paralyzed the sector. So production is really seeing a decline. Brazil saw communities lose up to 80% of their crop. Overall harvest was expected to be down like 30 to 45% versus normal. Roos crop fell about 20%.

Elisa Louis [00:27:52]:

But it’s complicated by inflows of smuggled Bolivian Nuts. So that’s a little bit muddled, but again, there’s a real market impact here. The Brazil nut market is facing one of the tightest suppliers of recent memory. With the drought and instability going on, it’s really going to reshape the 2025, 2026 outlook. So looking ahead to 2026, we definitely expect prices to. To remain high. And I think we all know that they’ve just been difficult to find. I mean, Brazil nuts, there’s not a lot of offers out there, so this is definitely one where you’re going to want to put your needs out there, and we’ll do our best to lock it up for you.

Jessica Warden [00:28:41]:

Yep, this one’s interesting in the sense that it is also so volatile because it’s gathered versus, I mean, obviously drought impacts how much the yields come off the tree, but some of the supply availability is really tied to the economics of what it means to gather this commodity. So as prices creep up, the collectors that are on the ground have more incentive to go further in to the where the nuts are. But then again, as the market comes down after supply eases, they have less incentivization to go further. So the supply demand volatility with this is unique to things like Brazil nuts, and even pine nuts are kind of similar. So, again, it’s nice to know that we can plan ahead for where we can. But very interesting about the drought and the other pieces that you mentioned influencing the pricing. I hadn’t realized all those factors were at play.

Elisa Louis [00:29:39]:

Yeah, there’s just some security challenges where even the most incentivized collector might be a little bit nervous right now.

Jessica Warden [00:29:46]:

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Crazy.

Elisa Louis [00:29:49]:

Well, we’ll definitely see how it goes. But if you can get your hands on Brazil nuts, if you get an offer, I probably it’s a good idea to pull the trigger on it, I’d say.

Jessica Warden [00:30:02]:

What do you think, Garrett? You think I could start growing some of them in my backyard? Some trees?

Garrett McBride [00:30:06]:

I think so. And I’ll come collect them if I’m so incentivized.

Jessica Warden [00:30:09]:

All right, great. Well, enough about Brazil nuts. Yeah.

Garrett McBride [00:30:16]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:30:17]:

All right, well, hey, let’s shift gears a little bit away from nuts. Let’s take a look at the seeds and grains. This is a big category for smurks, and I’d say the biggest, and therefore I want you both to weigh in, is for, as far as we’re concerned, is really sunflower seeds. So tell me about what’s happening. You guys decide who starts. Go.

Garrett McBride [00:30:45]:

Jessica, how about it?

Jessica Warden [00:30:48]:

All right.

Elisa Louis [00:30:48]:

I’LL go.

Jessica Warden [00:30:52]:

So this is an item that we track really closely actually both domestically and from overseas. We have active imports from the EU growing regions and then we also work very closely with some of our very best partners actually that we work with in the industry and longstanding partners are from the US market. So I can speak a little bit more to the domestic market where we’re starting to see that the confectionary grade or confectionary types kernel planting acres are down as a kind of year over year comparison. And they’ve really been kind of swapped out with like the black oil variety being planted in the, in their place. And a lot of that has. It’s kind of like a two pronged thing. So some of it is because they’re growers are trying to bolster the availability for seeds for crushing. But there’s also this regulation relating to the different pesticides that can be used to manage certain weevils and it impacts the ability to successfully grow and have high yields on some of the food grade options.

Jessica Warden [00:31:58]:

So it’s actually a little bit more advantageous for farmers to grow like bird seed and oil grade variety this year. So it’s kind of like this is the, the path of least resistance, so to speak. So we’re starting to see domestic supply slightly constrained there. But again they had some decent growing conditions so there was some heat there for a while where people weren’t sure how it was going to pan out. But in the last couple weeks there’s been some good weather as seeds are really getting to the point where they’ll start to come off. And still, even with some of the things that we’re seeing, conventional supply out of the US is at a cost advantage to some of the supply out of Bulgaria really because of the, if you consider the tariff impacts, domestic organic supply is a little bit of a different story in that planting acres are down and they’re usually pretty constrained. And just the economics around how much farmers need to grow organic is pretty high relative to the EU counterparts. So even with the added tariffs, we’re still seeing where the organic options out of the EU are going to be a little bit better.

Jessica Warden [00:33:12]:

But I definitely welcome your thoughts on this, Elisa and Garrett.

Garrett McBride [00:33:17]:

Yeah, you know exactly right. Agree with everything you said. We’re focusing on Eastern Europe. We’re mostly talking about the organic.

Garrett McBride [00:33:26]:

At least over the past year we’ve seen these markets come off significantly this time last year was a very different story between conflict and drought and factors. Right now the harvest is currently underway in the primary Growing regions in Eastern Europe. We’re talking about Ukraine, Bulgaria, Turkey. And expectations are of course slightly higher yield than last year’s, which is good for conventional and organic. Organics should be in reasonable supply, should be accessible now. Global demand for some sort or other has dipped significantly and the markets as a result are flat.

Garrett McBride [00:34:04]:

So now would be a really good time to lock in to those favorable economics. Availability shouldn’t necessarily be a near or midterm concern, but you know, the price is right right now. Jump in.

Jessica Warden [00:34:16]:

Yeah, and I definitely think we have some good positions already built up. So for us to be able to help in the near midterm smarts is positioned. But you know, if you’re looking for even planning beyond that, you’re right. It’s a great time to do so.

Elisa Louis [00:34:30]:

So this is one of those interesting years when the domestic and the imported product are a little bit closer to the same playing field, seems like and.

Garrett McBride [00:34:40]:

The tariffs coming into play certainly aren’t helping the Eastern Europe markets.

Elisa Louis [00:34:45]:

Right. Very good. Well appreciate that so much. Kind of excited to see how it keeps going, but looks like people can go ahead and get their coverage and go from there, make their decision about us or imported. Great. Well, let’s shift gears to talk about another really big product that smirks works with all the time, which is pumpkin seeds. And we’ve got some interesting options this coming season with pumpkin. But to start off, Jessica, could you give us an update on our basically our tried and true Chinese supply chains and kind of where that’s at?

Jessica Warden [00:35:31]:

Yeah. So what we’re hearing from our processing partners and kind of boots on the ground there is that new crop harvesting has begun in the north northwest China, but opening prices are higher than current crop levels, which has really done a funny thing in country where speculators are really taking an interest and kind of increasing their confidence to hold a product and kind of slowly leak out that into the market, which is really pushing prices higher. And then there’s been word recently of some rainy conditions in some of the growing regions that have come at a time that weren’t advantageous to yields. All that being said, overall the new crop growth looks strong where the yields so even though maybe planting acres aren’t up significantly, the yields on the acres that were planted were initially indicated to look good. So again to be determined with some of this rainy news information. But there was also specifically with conventional about 100,000 metric ton carryover which has really as you start to come out of this year and into next, it helps really sustain the domestic in country demand while also still allowing exporters or folks like us importers to be able to get some decent value with products. So conventional is looking good right now. It’s a good time to buy.

Jessica Warden [00:36:55]:

I do think that walking in now would be advantageous. There’s not going to be this major softening in the coming months. Organic, on the other hand, seems to be a little bit of a different story in that planted acreage is down and yields are. Yields for this year are anticipated to be smaller than last year already. And then like I said, news of this rain that just came out within the last couple days. We’ll see how that impacts everything. So our recommendation is definitely to book out through the end really as far as you are needing into next year. So Smirk’s is comfortable about trying to go and get things locked up and into the warehouse and so we can help service some of those accounts because we’re really bullish on what will happen with that pricing.

Elisa Louis [00:37:42]:

Gotcha. Thanks so much for giving us the important China update. And I’d say it’s been probably since maybe 2020 where smirks has really gotten a lot of feedback from buyers that have said, well, okay, there’s the Chinese product, but what else do you have for us? What other origins can you give us? And I think that’s something that we’ve explored for a while. I mean certainly there’s the product out of Europe, but it’s always been at a shorter supply and different cost structures, different varieties.

Jessica Warden [00:38:15]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:38:16]:

Different spec. Right. So what I’m pretty interested to hear about is for Garrett to enlighten us about kind of a new emerging origin that we’re going to be working with out of Smirk’s for Pumpkin.

Jessica Warden [00:38:34]:

When you would cue the drum roll sound bite from the editor.

Garrett McBride [00:38:40]:

Yeah, this is some super exciting news. Elisa Smirks has joined forces with a long term processing partner to have exclusive access to Turkish. Turkish shine skin pumpkin kernels. Say that five times fast. Turkish shine skin pumpkin kernels.

Jessica Warden [00:38:57]:

There you go.

Garrett McBride [00:38:58]:

As discussed, we’ve been seeing the growing demand for non Chinese everything and shine skin pumpkin is usually one of the more challenging commodities to source outside of China in very large quantities is a great option with the reciprocal tariffs being what they are in China north of 50%. Everybody needs options and this is going to be a game changer in this industry. I’m traveling to Turkey early September, so in about three weeks to qualify the farms, the cleaning lines and the pasteurization line with this partner. And if all goes well, we will soon be the Exclusive importer of one of the largest volumes of shine skin pumpkin outside of China. So stay tuned as this project develops. But this is a super cool project.

Jessica Warden [00:39:46]:

And if it doesn’t go well, we’re going to blame Garrett in full effect.

Garrett McBride [00:39:50]:

It’s my job to manage risk. If it doesn’t go well, all your fault. It’s going to go great. We have nothing but confidence.

Jessica Warden [00:39:56]:

Exactly. Exactly. As being in sales. I mean, we definitely do. Even before the tariff talks, there was just always that demand for. Mainly because people just want that different labeling or that different story for their customers. And so I’m excited. It’ll be cool.

Jessica Warden [00:40:15]:

And we’ve already seen some samples and it’s very. There’s an uncanny resemblance. Like they’re truly shine skin. It’s not like, oh, that kind of looks like what we. It’s very spot on. They can also do the GWs, so just like we can get from the EU counterparts. So there’s a couple different options there, but we’re excited to continue to develop this narrative for our customers and see what. What it looks like for several crop years to come.

Garrett McBride [00:40:42]:

Yeah, demand is going to be through the roof for this.

Elisa Louis [00:40:45]:

That’s great. I mean, the nice thing is that we can provide options and.

Jessica Warden [00:40:49]:

Right.

Elisa Louis [00:40:49]:

For those that want to go with the Chinese product, that is great. They can continue. But now we’ll have another option for those that are looking for a different origin for their labels. So.

Garrett McBride [00:41:02]:

Sure.

Elisa Louis [00:41:03]:

It’s always a great thing to have diversity of choice, right?

Jessica Warden [00:41:07]:

Yes, yes, exactly.

Elisa Louis [00:41:08]:

Absolutely awesome. Well, we can’t wait to hear more from Garrett when he gets back. But in the mean pictures in the.

Jessica Warden [00:41:16]:

Meantime, when you’re there.

Elisa Louis [00:41:22]:

Ah, yes, Absolutely. Awesome. Well, hey, let’s get right into the good old drama that we always have every year with Chia. How about it? But no jokes.

Jessica Warden [00:41:33]:

I don’t know what you’re talking about. Chia has never been dramatic, Elisa. That’s never been a thing.

Garrett McBride [00:41:38]:

Yeah, no jokes. There’s always something going on with Chia. And this season, no exception, the number one producer of Chia in South America is Paraguay. And they experienced a catastrophic late frost this year. I mean, just about a month, month and a half ago. Frost is bad at the end of the growing season for Chia. Some are estimating that about half of this new crop was damaged or destroyed, which is just bad for everybody. Chia markets are extremely firm, as you can imagine, and with no carry in supplies this season are going to be critically limited as a result of those.

Garrett McBride [00:42:16]:

Those frost events. And that lack of carry in, it would definitely be in buyers best interest to reach out to our sales team and discuss availability and contract needs really for the rest of this crop year to make sure that you have your coverage is covered. Organic and pasteurized Chia will be an especially short supply. So make sure that. Make sure that you’re starting those conversations now and making sure that your needs are taken care of as soon as you possibly can.

Jessica Warden [00:42:46]:

Yeah. And I would also just add, part of what makes Chia so dramatic is just the cultural differences in the way that we do business versus other countries. And it comes in full effect when working with the Chia growing regions. Sometimes we don’t get the most straightforward communication from our partners. And so it makes it tough for us to be able to then develop real time information and updates for our customers. So we definitely get all of that out as soon as we can. But trying to get the real picture a lot of times becomes a challenge. And so I know for when you’re a buyer here in the United States and you don’t necessarily have that view all the way back to origin with some of these supply chains, it seems like some of this information comes like you’re caught off guard or feel like, wait, I thought we could buy this.

Jessica Warden [00:43:31]:

And then all of a sudden pricing is double. So we experience the same thing from the import side a lot with specific growing regions. And Chia seems to fall right into that mix. So that’s definitely why it stays real spicy around here as we follow Chia and the drama. So it’s no different this year.

Garrett McBride [00:43:52]:

That’s a great point.

Garrett McBride [00:43:53]:

It might be the end of this current season before we actually know how much was actually harvested. With almonds, we’ll know in a couple of months. With Chia, we won’t know until the end of it. With such conflicting accounts, I guess what.

Elisa Louis [00:44:06]:

You guys are saying is better to be safe than sorry. Cover yourself generously.

Garrett McBride [00:44:13]:

Well put.

Elisa Louis [00:44:15]:

Yeah, good to know. All right, well, I’m going to kind of lump some of these seeds and grains together because they tend to be those items that some of the same buyers work with. So that’ll be flax, sesame, and amaranth. Jessica, could you kind of enlighten us on that trio of ingredients and what’s happening?

Jessica Warden [00:44:38]:

Oh, yes, and actually I say that so confidently, but these are probably some of the items that I don’t know as strongly as some of the other ones we’ve talked about. But we get these items from a couple different growing regions. So while they are lumped together, they don’t necessarily follow some of the same pathways. So flax, sesame and amaranth we can import from India and we also do get some sesame from Pakistan this year is is interesting in that tariffs out of India are. Have been pretty volatile and unstable. So it’s actually causing us to reach out to figure out like some different alternatives with supply for those and then flax. Whereas there’s been times where similar to like the US EU debacle with sunflower or like flax is very similar. Like it doesn’t make sense to get Northern hemisphere or excuse me, not Northern Hemisphere, North American flax versus product out of India.

Jessica Warden [00:45:31]:

And that’s always kind of what we look at every year. And it seems like this year flax out of Canada is going to be the better option, except for we’re starting to get some information trickle in about some of the yields. And especially with organic flaxseed supply, their seeded area is projected to fall and it’s actually going to be one of the smallest plantings since the 1950s. And so that’ll impact things in ways that maybe we don’t quite understand at this point, but with the sharply reduced output and there was tight carryout and then combine that with kind of the unsteady footing that we have with some of these imported options. I feel like it’s a very much similar to Chia, like better safe than sorry. Start getting with your traders about what coverage you’re needing. If you do have origins or specific suppliers dialed in, it might make sense to start being a little bit more flexible or vetting alternative supply chains. So.

Jessica Warden [00:46:35]:

And again, that one I. I’m not living and breathing as much as some of the other ones. So we will put that with an asterisk and if there’s any updates, we.

Elisa Louis [00:46:43]:

Will follow up with you all.

Garrett McBride [00:46:44]:

And that massive potential tariff that’s being finalized right now imposed on goods from India is certainly going to play into these markets.

Jessica Warden [00:46:54]:

Yes.

Garrett McBride [00:46:54]:

Talking north of 50 or 50%.

Jessica Warden [00:46:57]:

Right. Right.

Elisa Louis [00:46:59]:

On that note, it’s just going to be interesting to see if the situation in Canada changes as well.

Jessica Warden [00:47:06]:

Right.

Elisa Louis [00:47:06]:

When our current agreement is expired, what’s going to happen there? So I’m sure that’s going to be interesting from a trade perspective what happens with the Canadian as well as the Mexican crops.

Garrett McBride [00:47:20]:

Right.

Jessica Warden [00:47:20]:

Yep. Yep.

Garrett McBride [00:47:21]:

It’s definitely something fun on the horizon.

Jessica Warden [00:47:23]:

And kick that can down the road, Elisa. That’s what we’re doing. Problem for another day.

Elisa Louis [00:47:30]:

Yep. You got it.

Jessica Warden [00:47:32]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:47:34]:

So we’ve talked a lot about Just the sheer demand and popularity of oats on this podcast before, but I think it’s really. So to that point, it’s really important for us to give a good market update on. Oh, it’s so, Garrett, where are we at?

Garrett McBride [00:47:51]:

Yeah, I really don’t want to jinx things by speaking too positively, prematurely, but the new crop votes in Canada looks to be in really great shape. This whole growing season in most of the regions, with some exceptions here and there, was very favorable for growth and development of these crops. Our hopes are high as the harvest is just getting underway right now. Some sources indicate 5 to 7% increase in the oats planted this year versus last year. Moderate carry in and just continuing to see increased demand for oats across the board. So a lot of positivity there. Availability shouldn’t be an issue this crop year. But as always, early contracts will provide, you know, longer term cost, ability, predictability at very competitive rates.

Garrett McBride [00:48:46]:

But availability shouldn’t be much of a concern this year.

Jessica Warden [00:48:51]:

Cool.

Elisa Louis [00:48:52]:

I like the sound of that. High demand.

Garrett McBride [00:48:54]:

It’s nice to have good news every once in a while.

Elisa Louis [00:48:56]:

Yeah. If we can bring it to the people who need their oat milk. Right.

Garrett McBride [00:49:03]:

Lots of granola to be consumed.

Elisa Louis [00:49:07]:

Right on. Okay. Well, another item that we’ve definitely seen an uptick, especially when you’re talking about the flakes, is quinoa. Quinoa flakes have just been kind of crazy. But we should talk about whole quinoa as well. Jessica, what do you have for us on that?

Jessica Warden [00:49:24]:

Well, Peru and Bolivia experienced some heavy rains in early spring, which delayed the quinoa planting. And so we’re actually seeing significant impacts to yields on quinoa, which then in turn, any kind of quinoa derivatives like flakes end up tightening as well. And so we are hearing and are seeing firsthand that the crop is anticipated to remain short through the rest of this year. And quinoa isn’t necessarily. It’s not a fall harvest commodity. There’s a smaller harvest in some of the growing regions in November, but again, we’re not hearing positive news about that. But typically we start to see new crop offers in May, April time frame. April, May time frame.

Jessica Warden [00:50:11]:

I should say that chronologically. And then shipments for new crops start to leave and hit the United States June, July area. And we really didn’t see the relief that was needed this last go around. So we came in with not a lot of carryover demand was firm, and then not a lot of relief from the new crops. So this one’s going to Remain tight. Pricing has definitely firmed. We do anticipate it to continue to firm. So another one where if you’re able to cover with some floor planning, that’s definitely important with this item, especially quinoa flakes.

Jessica Warden [00:50:47]:

And the again, compounding factor is tariffs. So where we’re already seeing commodity pricing rising on the raw material, you have the added layer of the tariff impacts. So prepare for quinoa to cost more than it has historically for the last several years.

Elisa Louis [00:51:03]:

So thank you for those insights. Good to know. One of the big topics that has been all over Smirk’s has been really the coconut market. As we all know, this past season in particular, the supply has just been really tight and demand has been high, especially with significant exports of the raw nuts to China. This is a category that we watch closely, keeping tabs on what’s happening in the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Indonesia and Vietnam. So I’d really like for us to break it down by product category. And so maybe we can start with coconut oil. Garrett, talk to me about coconut oil.

Garrett McBride [00:51:48]:

This year has been filled with challenges for those in the world of coconuts. We’ve seen global demand continue to increase dramatically, driven heavily by China. The demand increase, coupled with very uncooperative.

Garrett McBride [00:52:00]:

Weather in the coconut growing regions has driven raw coconut cost near historic high levels. And that of course, flows through the finished specs that we import and distribute. I’ve actually in the last year visited most of the large coconut growing regions personally and seeing firsthand the challenges these farmers and producers have faced. And I don’t envy them. It’s tough between El Nino, La Nina, you name it, it’s been one thing after another for these poor folks and hoping things improve. As far as oil is concerned, VCO virgin coconut oil is pretty steadily available right now and RBD is reasonably tight. It will be in your best interest to review your forecast and make sure that you have a plan. Purchasing plan.

Garrett McBride [00:52:50]:

Costs are going to remain on the higher side, but the availability is going to be somewhat challenged, you know, as we continue to move forward.

Elisa Louis [00:52:58]:

All right, well, we appreciate the insights on the oil. And if we dive into desiccated coconut, I mean, this is a major category as well. It encompasses fine macaroon, medium chips and coconut smiles. Jessica, could you give us some insights on this market?

Jessica Warden [00:53:17]:

Oh, yes. Well, as you would imagine, desiccated coconut follows a lot of right in step with the oil market. So like Garrett mentioned in like that category, we’ve seen pricing very firm and availability remain very tight. Internally, we’ve seen demand kind of vary pretty widely by spec. So we’ve just even recently we’ve seen an uptick in inquiries for buyers for medium shred more so in the last few weeks than we had for a few months there where it seemed like stuff was pretty steady and then all of a sudden a sharp increase. And what that tells us is that the market must be drying up on some of these cuts in that maybe where someone was buying regularly before and had a pretty steady supply. Now they’re turning to other folks supply alternatives like smarts as an option. And a lot of that is being driven by the fact that for several months it was just very hard to get regular shipments out of origin.

Jessica Warden [00:54:16]:

We’re starting to see some of that ease a little bit and we do have some solid positions booked. And again not trying to jinx things, but it seems like things are flowing a little bit more steadily from origin than compared to the last three to six months. And so we’ve been working really close with our processors on both the desiccated and just availability also kind of as a segue into the next category there around manufacturers that are making coconut cream and milk because we’ve really just been managing those demands from our customers. It’s kind of hand in hand here. So recommendation on desiccated and probably oil very similar. If you can cover at least through the end of Q1 and kind of get through this level of uncertainty, that’s highly recommended. But also prepare yourself that we’re not going to see maybe a huge market correction that we everybody maybe was hoping for. I think there’s just some bigger issues in the supply chain that will keep competition for raw material tight and firm and keep processors really happening to offer pricing at higher levels to keep their production and operations running.

Garrett McBride [00:55:26]:

Yeah, definitely think it would be wise to have coverage through Q1, Q2 of next year even further.

Garrett McBride [00:55:31]:

Yeah.

Garrett McBride [00:55:32]:

Just to be.

Elisa Louis [00:55:33]:

Yeah. Appreciate that. It still seems like we’re closely navigating, carefully navigating I should say this, this part.

Jessica Warden [00:55:41]:

This is going to be one of those hindsight of this was 2020 type of things and we’re going to be like yeah, we were right on. And we’re going to be like wow, we. We sounded and didn’t know what we were talking about one or the other. Elisa, we’re right on. Yeah, I like it.

Elisa Louis [00:55:56]:

On a bright note, I feel like coconut cream is something where we’ve seen a really interesting increase in popularity and the product is flowing pretty well right now. It’s a great non dairy alternative used in Baking, cooking, beverages, desserts and other products. So I love to hear Garrett tell us more about coconut cream and kind of what’s happening there.

Garrett McBride [00:56:22]:

Yeah, it’s been really cool to see the popularity and then the demand increase around coconut cream. It’s such a cool product. So much that you can do with it. So many different options for use. Real quick, a clarification about what coconut cream is. Coconut cream is the higher fat liquid extracted from the coconut meat or the copra, not to be confused with coconut water, which is a liquid that’s present inside the kernel when you first crack it open. So just making sure we’re talking about the same things here. High cost and limited availability of the copra or the raw coconut meat have been persistent challenges for producers at origin for quite some time, leaving many producers weeks or months behind fulfilling orders.

Garrett McBride [00:57:04]:

Coconut products, including cream, have traded at near historic high levels this year, but we may be seeing a bit of relief soon. Costs are not likely to come down that much, but it’s likely we’ll see a small dip and then a more stable market moving out of 2025. The take home message here is we all need to come to terms with the fact that a higher baseline cost is the new normal for coconut products. The large players domestically are not holding very much inventory across the coconut categories and some suppliers are not offering product until Q3 of this year or Q1 of 2026. It would definitely be wise to have your needs covered again through Q2 of next year because availability is likely to be a challenge.

Jessica Warden [00:57:48]:

Yep, very well put, Garrett.

Elisa Louis [00:57:50]:

It’s really sounding like a bit of a broken record, folks, but because it’s all coming from the same cocoa nut, right?

Garrett McBride [00:58:00]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:58:01]:

But on the other hand, let’s talk about other products because it’s fun to talk about some of the stuff that we’re doing, especially coconut milk powder. What can we say about it, Garrett?

Garrett McBride [00:58:13]:

Yeah, broken record on the market conditions. Broken record on what the suppliers are dealing with. All the previously discussed market conditions and pressures also apply to the world of coconut milk powder. Coconut milk is simply the diluted coconut cream and coconut milk powder is achieved by spray drying the coconut milk. This is a really cool ingredient. Good, high quality coconut milk powder is getting hard to source these days because of raw material challenges and a number of other factors. We are excited to announce that we have reached an exclusivity agreement with one of the largest and best producers in Vietnam. They produce a variety of coconut products, but their coconut milk powder is top notch.

Garrett McBride [00:58:56]:

I’ve been Visiting this facility a couple times a year for the last few years as they’ve been building this line and the spray drying plant. And it’s beyond impressive. It’s like a surgical clean room. It’s just mind boggling. And I’ve seen a lot of factories and a lot of good and a lot of bad and this is top notch stuff. Give our sales team a call, discuss your CMP needs, request samples and taste for yourself. Really superior quality of, of this particular item.

Elisa Louis [00:59:24]:

That’s exciting news, Garrett. I mean, when you came back with the report that we had this sign sealed and delivered and it’s a beautiful factory. Just very, very fun fact that Smirk’s can really offer such robust supply chains of this item.

Garrett McBride [00:59:43]:

Yeah, that’s such a huge win for Smirk’s and for our customers. To have a partner of this caliber is all ours.

Jessica Warden [00:59:50]:

Yes, definitely. And it’s been such an item and a category that we’ve been growing for since I started here. And so it’s really awesome to see not only the growth in the consumption of the item, but just the way that Smarts has kind of been really always looking for a great solid supply option or multiple supply options for this item because it’s something that we really just believe in as a coconut item. It does a lot of. There’s a lot of really cool applications and very versatile ingredient, for sure.

Garrett McBride [01:00:18]:

Yeah, we don’t see demand for coconut milk powder falling off anytime soon. This is just going to get bigger and bigger.

Jessica Warden [01:00:24]:

Yep.

Elisa Louis [01:00:25]:

Well, speaking of growing categories, I feel like it may be still somewhat fledgling, but coconut water powder has really been growing in demand in the last few years and it’s been interesting to see like it popping up on different ingredient decks, like all the hydration products, for example. So, Garrett, talk to us about that product.

Garrett McBride [01:00:49]:

Yeah, this is another, another product that’s been really exciting to see the popularity growing around. It’s such a smart concept and not.

Garrett McBride [01:00:56]:

Just for, you know, dry blind customers.

Garrett McBride [01:00:58]:

But for those in the liquid beverage category.

Jessica Warden [01:01:01]:

Right.

Garrett McBride [01:01:02]:

You know, shipping coconut water powder is so much more efficient than shipping coconut water. It’s spray dried coconut water.

Garrett McBride [01:01:10]:

It’s the same thing. You rehydrate it and you have coconut water. Based on what I said.

Jessica Warden [01:01:15]:

Oh, sorry. I was gonna say, not to mention just the idea of if you’re a brand and you’re looking for ways to diversify a product line but, you know, not go off too far, you could have your ready to drink options that you know, are on the refrigerated space and Then now you can develop another product that’s very same family of items using a different formulation but for the customer ends up being a new delivery method for the same type of product. And shelf space is not, not as much in the retail perspective if you’re filling a dry shelf space versus a refrigerated shelf space. So it becomes very diversifying for brands as an ingredient.

Garrett McBride [01:01:54]:

Yeah, definitely. Based on what we’ve been seeing from the production side and from the inquiries on the customer side, it doesn’t look like the popularity is going to diminish on this either. This is going to continue to grow and continue to become one of the most popular food ingredients for innovation.

Jessica Warden [01:02:13]:

Yeah. Yep.

Elisa Louis [01:02:15]:

Very exciting. All right, well, no coconut market report would be complete without talking about coconut sugar. So, Jessica, what do you have for us on coconut sugar? We’ve had some supply challenges the last months. So what are we seeing now?

Jessica Warden [01:02:34]:

Well, while no market report would be complete, I don’t, you know, have anything that’s terribly different from the things. So it might be a little bit brief as far as the update here, but we’ve seen it follow a lot of the same trends we’ve already talked about. Coconut sugar specifically really comes out of Indonesia as a growing region, so it does have some of its own unique challenges. But the biggest challenge that we saw with coconut over the last six to 12 months actually came from some of the backlogs tied to the organic new organic regulations and being able to get organic transaction certificates all the way down to the different supplier groups just because of the nature of the coconut sugar supply chain. So we started to see some of relief there. And it just seems like kind of with some of these other ones where it’s like just constant drama. I feel like that’s how coconut sugar has always been a saga around here since I’ve started. So where we have very high highs and then very low lows.

Jessica Warden [01:03:27]:

And so it seems like maybe we’re turning the corner and we have some pretty good positions built up. We’re starting to build up stocks where we’re not, you know, as hand to mouth. Our processing partners are seeing some more favorable news. But, you know, again, that raw material, the competition for raw material is a real thing that they’re, they’re facing. So the price for coconut sugar, not anticipating any softening soon. We’re just glad we’re able to get it at this point. It was kind of one of those things where it was just hard to come by at any price. So that’s kind of nice.

Jessica Warden [01:04:03]:

Definitely get in front of your trader with that item as well. Ramadan comes a little earlier this year than we’ve seen historically. So that always puts a very interesting kink in the coconut sugar supply chain just because there’s just not production happening for a very specific amount of time. So if you don’t have product on the water and ready to come in, you kind of wait for a little bit and then you have to kind of catch up. So. But that’s something that we are able to plan for. So if you’re able to get with your Sparks trading associate, they should be able to walk you through some of that and also help you with some spot needs in the meantime, because we do have finally some. We’re not hand to mouth on that one.

Garrett McBride [01:04:44]:

About time.

Jessica Warden [01:04:45]:

Yes. Yeah. And again, I knock on all the wood that is around because we’re not jinxing things.

Elisa Louis [01:04:51]:

Yeah, I hope we’re not jinxing it.

Jessica Warden [01:04:53]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [01:04:53]:

Anyways, at this moment, folks.

Jessica Warden [01:04:55]:

Yes. At the time of this recording.

Elisa Louis [01:04:58]:

Yes. All right, well, one more thing to round out coconut, which I find really interesting, is the coconut water concentrate. And Jessica, could you give us kind of the one on one? Not the one on one. Excuse me, the one on one.

Jessica Warden [01:05:14]:

Yes.

Elisa Louis [01:05:15]:

All about this product.

Jessica Warden [01:05:17]:

Well, what is interesting about this one is it’s kind of a newer one that we’re following in Smirk’s. It’s again, it follows the trends that we’ve seen. And so we’ve been working with processors that make coconut cream and all of these other items. Then they also make coconut water concentrate. So it’s kind of a natural progression for us. But where it’s kind of interesting and where we’re talking about it in the line of our coconut items here is you might be able to even consider this as a sweetener. So it can be used in the beverage category. And it’s often used in that way where basically the processors take the coconut water and it’s sent to some level of an evaporator.

Jessica Warden [01:05:55]:

And the evaporator is done in such a way where it’s gentle enough heat that it reduces the product’s boiling point to where the product can evaporate but without losing its nutrient density that you would see if it was your typical high heat process. So by doing that, the concentration reduces the product to typically 60 to 70 brix, which that amounts to about 15 times. So, like, if you take one serving of this and rehydrate, it gives you about 15 times the volume that it started at. It’s cooled quickly, and then it’s packed aseptically and is typically stored in. This will ship frozen, and it’s stored in frozen containers and warehousing. So that’s where we’ll see. But like Garrett said, it. It achieves a freight efficiency that is better than shipping water.

Jessica Warden [01:06:47]:

And then the piece that’s very fascinating is by being such a concentrated version of the product, it’s actually really naturally sweet. So if it’s not fully diluted, it can be added into different beverages or applications as a sweetener without having all of the natural or added sugars that are required for that labeling. So it becomes a really great option for some clean label items as well. So this one’s interesting in that some of the bigger players of coconut water concentrate, from an import perspective, we’ve seen, have kind of dialed back a little bit. So there’s a little bit of wiggle room in the market. And now here, Smirks is stepping right into that gap. And so we’re excited to really start helping customers with their coconut water concentrate needs.

Garrett McBride [01:07:36]:

That’s such a cool innovation. I mean, think about the freight efficiency there. You get. You get basically 15, 15 and a half containers shipped for the price. It’s unbelievable.

Jessica Warden [01:07:46]:

Exactly. My grandma would love a deal like that.

Garrett McBride [01:07:48]:

I love it.

Jessica Warden [01:07:49]:

So she. Yeah.

Elisa Louis [01:07:52]:

Yeah. Everybody’s looking for deals right now. There’s no.

Jessica Warden [01:07:54]:

Yeah, that’s true.

Elisa Louis [01:07:56]:

Yes. Hit us up. Hit us up for it. Right on. Well, I’m going to shift gears entirely away from coconut right now into a category that’s near and dear to my heart, dried fruits. And in addition to our tried and true dried fruits like apples and mango that Smirks has been importing, we’re kind of excited this year to emphasize more sourcing of innovative dried fruits. And a lot of these are single ingredients, so. Talk about clean ingredient decks.

Elisa Louis [01:08:30]:

The single ingredient items are pretty cool. So in general, before I get into our what this market intel unfolds, just want to say that if you’re trying to innovate in this category, please reach out to us because we’ve got some new, interesting stuff that we’re working on. And without diving too much into it, I just want to say we’ve got options for you, so hit us up. But on another note, Garrett, I have a pop question for you. What fruit is nicknamed the King of Fruits?

Garrett McBride [01:09:07]:

Oh, man.

Garrett McBride [01:09:09]:

This could go a couple different directions. I’m gonna go with mango.

Elisa Louis [01:09:12]:

Bingo. You got it. And I think that came from India because it’s just like everybody eats mango. They eat so much that they hardly Export any of the. They really don’t produce much in the way of dried mango that at least gets exported. It’s all consumed in India. So anyway, just a little bit of trivia.

Jessica Warden [01:09:35]:

Fun fact indeed, Elisa. I’m going to tell my ticket off.

Garrett McBride [01:09:42]:

Either banana or mango.

Jessica Warden [01:09:43]:

Yeah, mango.

Elisa Louis [01:09:45]:

Yeah, mango, mango. So diving into mango Mexican crop, which is typically running from about June to September or so, has definitely been challenged by droughts and changing weather patterns this past season. And of course it’s still going, but it’s definitely been causing lower yields, which it doesn’t help the growing demand because there’s just been a high, continued high interest in putting mango packing it in a bag as a straight pack or for a mix or putting it into energy bars, you name it. So prices have really remained high and supply has continued to be limited. Smirx is really, we’ve had for quite some time now the past few years, product out of Peru, but this year we’re really kind of doubling down on it. We’ve really helped our supplier boost his yield with more production capability on organic dried mangoes. So we’re pretty excited with that product expected to land somewhere around January because the season starts basically at the end of the year. We’ll start with the Edwards variety, which is not the most popular, but still a nice, more of a subtle flavor.

Elisa Louis [01:11:06]:

And then we move into the Kent, which is what most people are used to. And we’ll have a good mix of strips and of course, cheeks. And if you’re looking for organic or conventional product, please reach out to us for coverage. We do focus on organic, but we can help you with conventional as well. And honestly, I don’t know what’s going to happen because again, we’re at this moment we still have some availability, but hopefully by the time you hear this, we’ll still have availability because it is pre selling pretty fast. So anyways, Jessica, what new single ingredient dried fruit are you most excited about? Smirks importing this fall?

Jessica Warden [01:11:52]:

Well, I’m so glad that you asked, Elisa, because we started recently importing organic banana coins. We’ve always had a line on like the sweetened and unsweetened banana chips, but this product is really awesome because it’s for that different application. It’s the softer coins that seem to be a great standalone snack. Like you said, good for the straight repack. So now we have a Sri Lankan organic banana coin available. It’ll start kind of in our east coast stocks. And even with the tariffs, we’re seeing where we’re able to Offer for a pretty competitive price. So between the straight repack or trail mixes, I think it’ll be a really nice addition to our dried fruit repertoire.

Elisa Louis [01:12:38]:

Right on. I’m excited about it as well. So awesome. Looking forward to that. And dried apple has been something, of course, that Smirk’s has imported for quite some time. And of course we focus a lot on organic, but now we’ve got a great conventional supplier domestically as well. So we’ve only seen demand continue to increase for the dried apple and actually just had a huge run on the dices and sold out a lot of those. But still hit us up because we can offer this product and it’s a great single ingredient, fiber rich dried fruit that you can put in your snacks and your trail mixes, baking cereals, what have you.

Elisa Louis [01:13:30]:

And one thing that kind of stands out about the product that we import from Argentina is the fact that we can offer the apple rings. Because this is unique. You can’t really find the rings themselves. It’s a more challenging, time consuming cut to produce. Not as many suppliers do it. So you may not find it from Chile or from the U.S. but, but we do offer it out of Argentina so people will hit us up. We do have a good stock of it on the east coast, so that’s there for the picking, so to speak.

Garrett McBride [01:14:10]:

Sure, I see what you did there.

Elisa Louis [01:14:13]:

Yeah.

Jessica Warden [01:14:14]:

And Garrett’s not that quick, so way to lay that down.

Elisa Louis [01:14:21]:

How about cranberries? Jessica, do you want to fill us in on sugar infused and apple juice infused cranberries? Organics?

Jessica Warden [01:14:28]:

Yes. Yeah, Yeah. I like how you guys save all the dramatic saga filled options for me to go on about, but cranberries very much in that realm where it’s just a crop that seems to get smaller each year, where demand seems to stay firm and, or like a little bit of increased demand in organic cranberries. But the crop size and the plantings just remain tight because it’s, it’s such a. The economics associated with growing organic cranberries are just not as enticing as their conventional counterparts. So a lot of the cranberries that are grown are really focused in that conventional market. So this crop year is seeming to be no exception or shaping up to be no exception to that. And there was no carryover.

Jessica Warden [01:15:15]:

So, like, that’s the other piece that will really make this market tight. So Sparks actually had kind of a couple windfalls with cranberries over the last few months where we were able to land a few loads. So we have a small carryover of organic sugar Infused and then we’ll be waiting very patiently for organic options to be available kind of October forward. But even that is TBD a little bit with what the processors are going to be able to offer. And one of the main processors that we work with are one of the only ones to do apple juice infused. So that makes that market even that much smaller where some of the other big players really focus on the sugar infused. So all that is to say it’s going to be a tight market with supply that will likely outpace demand for from start to finish. So the earlier you can plan, the better.

Jessica Warden [01:16:11]:

And even in that case, it may make sense to start having some folks help you with alternative items and ways to get creative around that spec.

Elisa Louis [01:16:19]:

Yeah, I hear you. And you’re on a roll with, with these types of items, tight markets. I think you’re doing a great job. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna let you take over on organic golden berries as well.

Jessica Warden [01:16:33]:

I would love to echo the same sentiments. Copy or cut out cranberries, insert golden berries, basically. So similar to some of the things that impacted quinoa, the same type of weather patterns impacted the golden berries in some of the earlier growing time frames. And so there’s not a lot of raw material available. And so right now is kind of when all of that is being processed and firsthand, as you’ve been trying to service some different accounts with this item, it’s like we think, okay, we’re going to get this amount on this next container. And all of a sudden, because truly the raw material is that tight at origin, we’re getting as much as we possibly can, but it’s still really not enough to fulfill the demand that we’re seeing. So. And that’s just the small smirks picture.

Jessica Warden [01:17:23]:

So take that. Across the industry, there’s demand that’s going unfulfilled at this point, even with new crop availability. So that’ll start trickling into the United States here in the next couple months. But we do expect that one to remain tight. Pricing has firmed. It’s definitely higher this year compared to previous years. And we definitely think that if you do have any kind of projects planned around golden berries, definitely share your demand needs and forecasts with your trader and we can work to tell you where we can help and also again, give you some guidance on what’s feasible and what’s not.

Elisa Louis [01:18:04]:

All right, well, I think that wraps up quite the market report. I know this has been a lengthy one and so I appreciate our listeners hanging in, but I Hope you found some good nuggets of information here. And Jessica and Garrett, I really want to thank you for putting out all of your knowledge and insights about the different fall harvest crops. It’s been super helpful and I personally have learned a lot.

Garrett McBride [01:18:28]:

I appreciate you letting us jump in here.

Jessica Warden [01:18:31]:

Yeah. And same to you, Elisa. You always do such a wonderful job organizing these. Always a pleasure to join in with you. And I feel a little bit more equipped to go chat with customers now too, so.

Garrett McBride [01:18:42]:

Yeah.

Garrett McBride [01:18:42]:

Holy cow. That was a lot of information.

Jessica Warden [01:18:44]:

Yeah, exactly. And we’ll basically have to follow up with a 2.0 after Garrett gets back from Turkey and we can do a deep dive into the pumpkin.

Garrett McBride [01:18:53]:

Good news? You bet.

Elisa Louis [01:18:55]:

Yeah. Yes, exactly to your point. Stay tuned from Smirk’s, whether that be on LinkedIn or email updates or upcoming podcasts. So with that, I’m going to wrap up this episode 18 of get the Scoop of Smirks. And we hope that you all have found some great insights on the fall 2025 harvest market trends, pricing, wonderful tariff information, as helpful as you can for your planning in the upcoming months. And remember, supply and demand can shift quickly, so staying informed is key. And that’s what we’re here for at smerc. So hit us up when you need help.

Elisa Louis [01:19:37]:

And until next time, keep your scoop handy and happy sourcing.

Jessica Warden [01:19:42]:

Yeah, thanks, Elisa.

Elisa Louis [01:19:44]:

See you guys.

Garrett McBride [01:19:46]:

So that’s it for this episode of.

Jessica Warden [01:19:48]:

Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast where we bring you the latest market reports, insights into bulk ingredients and their origins as well well as in depth product information. So if you have any questions, feedback, or just want a sample to taste for yourself, visit the smerx.com website or email us at whats new smerks.com never miss a future episode. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks so much for tuning in.

The post Transcript: Fall Harvest 2025 appeared first on Bulk Ingredient Network.

Hey there. Welcome to Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast, where bulk ingredient conversation happens. We’re sharing our knowledge and expertise as bulk ingredient importers, tapping into the latest trends we are seeing and commenting on what that means for natural food businesses as they approach ingredient purchasing, product development, and marketing. You’ll hear the latest market reports, ingredient specifications, and product applications from Smirk’s’ in house experts, as well as origin stories from our growers and processors around the world. Listen in for the scoop on what’s happening with bulk ingredients.

Garrett McBride [00:00:49]:

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Get the Scoop with Smirk’s episode 17. I’m Elisa Louis. And joining me today is my colleague, Jessica Warden.

Jessica Warden [00:00:58]:

Hey, friends.

Elisa Louis [00:01:00]:

In this episode, we’re breaking down the trends we saw at Expo West’s show in Anaheim this March. And, you know, as a bulk organic and non GMO conventional ingredient importer and supplier, SMIRCs is very active in Anaheim. Not only do we exhibit at Expo West, but we’re also in the Fresh Ideas organic marketplace and the nearby Southern California IFT show. So today, really, you’re gonna wanna hear all the things we have to say, but high level, some of the things that we’ll go over are nutrient dense snacks to the rise of nostalgic flavors and innovative global products. We’ll really dive into the major trends we uncovered at expo. So, Jessica, big welcome to you.

Jessica Warden [00:01:45]:

What’s up, Elisa? I have to say I’ve been dreading. Do I’m just kidding. I’ve been looking forward to recording this podcast ever since we’ve gotten back from Anaheim. It’s always a a fun one to recap. So thanks for having me.

Elisa Louis [00:01:58]:

Absolutely. This is gonna be a lot of fun. And not only are we podcast buddies, but we were sharing a house at the show. Right? Yes. Yay. There you have it. Meeting you. Alright.

Elisa Louis [00:02:11]:

Well, a little a few stats before we kinda get into it here. So this year, they reported 70,000 attendees at the show and around 3,000 or so exhibitors at Expo West. And this compares to last year, like, they reported around 65,000 and roughly 3,300 exhibitors in 2024. So some good stats. And the schedule was different this year. Right?

Jessica Warden [00:02:38]:

Yes. Yep. I liked it.

Elisa Louis [00:02:40]:

You know, having them shorten it up made it more condensed time frame between Wednesday through Friday with the limited hours the final day. And Tuesday, we opened up in the fresh ideas organic marketplace, and that place was hopping.

Jessica Warden [00:02:57]:

Oh, yeah. Definitely.

Elisa Louis [00:02:59]:

I mean, could you believe the visitors that were lining up around the corner? And we felt like we were, I don’t know, the cool place to be. But, maybe that’s because there are actually nothing else going on during that time, Jessica, but we could feel good about it.

Jessica Warden [00:03:16]:

I don’t know. I think the line at our booth definitely rivaled that of all of the hotel coffee shops. So Smurk’s booth specifically, that was the place to be, I think.

Elisa Louis [00:03:25]:

There you go. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Exactly. Alright. Well, let’s break it down with some stats, Jessica. They reported that there were some 70,000 attendees at the show this year with about 3,000 exhibitors.

Jessica Warden [00:03:40]:

Okay.

Elisa Louis [00:03:41]:

Last year, they said around 65,000 attendees with about 3,300 exhibitors. So pretty good stats. Yeah. Schedule this year is of course, you know, was shortened and being Wednesday through Friday with limited, hours on the last day, that was kind of a different format.

Jessica Warden [00:04:02]:

Whoop whoop. No Saturday.

Elisa Louis [00:04:04]:

Yeah. We got our weekend back.

Jessica Warden [00:04:06]:

Yeah. Exactly.

Elisa Louis [00:04:09]:

And, Tuesday, when we opened up, we felt like kind of the cool kids in town, maybe because there’s nothing else going on. But over at the Fresh Ideas organic marketplace, the place was hopping. Right?

Jessica Warden [00:04:23]:

Yeah. For sure. It was very busy. Lots of great conversations in that first day for sure.

Elisa Louis [00:04:29]:

Definitely. And the fact that we were in a captive audience didn’t hurt, but then we really had to divide and conquer with our team because we had the Southern California IFT show that opened up at 03:30. So half our team headed over to that show to cover that one as well. And I gotta say, I mean, despite all the traffic congestion that people were facing trying to get from one place to the other, the, SoCal IFT was quite busy.

Jessica Warden [00:05:00]:

Oh, yeah. So Yeah. For sure. It was even I mean, through the end too, you know, it was it stayed really busy through most of the show hours. So that was great.

Elisa Louis [00:05:10]:

It definitely did. Yeah. And for those of you who haven’t been to that show, I think it’s really great because it really is a place for anybody looking for very specific ingredients to find it. I mean, you can find just about anything just walking up and down those aisles. And it’s just a great place to network with people. I mean, we had so many customer and supplier engagements there. It was a lot of fun.

Jessica Warden [00:05:41]:

For sure. I agree. It was a nice way to start off the expo where, you know, you kinda see a lot of your industry friends starting in the organic marketplace. But then when you get over to IFT, it’s like, oh, a great way to kick off the week for expo. That’s for sure.

Elisa Louis [00:05:56]:

Andrea Wien Absolutely. So without further ado, let’s dig in to these trends. Jessica, do you wanna start us off? Andrea Wien I

Jessica Warden [00:06:04]:

got my shovel. I’m ready. Andrea Wien Right. Andrea Wien Yeah, for sure. So a lot of what we saw doesn’t come with a lot of surprise. It’s, you know, what we kind of have come to see over the last few years, and we just see a lot of growth in these continued snacking trends. And so nutrient density, definitely protein packed snacks ruled the aisles. This year, protein was king, and a lot of it was not your typical protein applications.

Jessica Warden [00:06:33]:

We saw a lot of a surge in versions of our favorite foods being enriched with protein. So pasta, pasta sauce, overnight oats, pancakes, you know, some of the fruit bars. I think, Elisa, you mentioned you saw protein pretzels. And so that’s really fun to just kind of see new and, inventive ways to really pack that protein punch is what I’m trying to say. That’s also not to disregard that protein drinks are still going strong. So, basically, we’re seeing protein applications as far as from an ingredient level, whether it’s pea protein, whey powder, other plant based proteins, whether they’re from nuts or other kind of creative options, that’s definitely something that we’re still continuing to see readily available there at the show.

Elisa Louis [00:07:25]:

I couldn’t agree more. The protein trend was certainly not unexpected. Mhmm. But what did surprise me as compared to 2024 was all the real meat products that were at the show. I’m not talking about plant based meat. I’m talking about real meat.

Jessica Warden [00:07:45]:

Yeah. Like our meats. We have the meats. Everybody was there with the meats. Yeah. Exactly.

Elisa Louis [00:07:50]:

It was absolutely there. So that was very interesting. The meat sticks, the meat jerky, and all the different flavors, You could find it all. But that’s not to say that there weren’t all of those plant based products as well, you know, all the the different ones that we’ve seen in the past. But what caught my eye as something new and different this year was some of the seafood products Yeah. That are popping up like smoked salmon. Right. That was really interesting.

Jessica Warden [00:08:24]:

Yeah. I agree. Lot of fun to kinda just see what each year is gonna bring an innovation. But speaking of maybe high dollar proteins, what is your take on this egg related, products this year, some of the growth we’ve seen there?

Elisa Louis [00:08:42]:

I was really keying in on that one, just knowing that it’s top of mind for consumers these days, as far as like, not only the price of eggs, but finding protein, sources of protein, like an egg. And so what I definitely noticed was that there were a lot of different egg replacement products. And so I saw things like what a vegan would be looking for, or maybe just somebody who wants to eat more plant based food.

Jessica Warden [00:09:13]:

Sure.

Elisa Louis [00:09:14]:

Like a real hardboiled egg looking product. I mean, I was kind of blown away by in terms of the look and the texture. It seemed like a hard boiled egg and it was like a kind of nice on the go type product or easy product to throw in your salad or whatever.

Jessica Warden [00:09:33]:

Right.

Elisa Louis [00:09:33]:

And it was made from almonds, cashews and coconut milk. Oh, wow. Super interesting.

Jessica Warden [00:09:38]:

Definitely.

Elisa Louis [00:09:40]:

I thought it was pretty good. And it did win a Nextee award, which isn’t was, you know, so kudos to them. Yeah. There was a plant based egg patty that I saw. And on the flip side, for the innovators who are looking to still utilize eggs in their ingredient deck or really try to cut down the number of eggs cost wise. There were definitely some companies that were providing solutions for that. And you could see that at the IFT show a lot, which was fascinating. So I learned that some of the r and d managers are utilizing a steamed chickpea flour as a replacement for eggs.

Jessica Warden [00:10:26]:

Oh, yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:10:27]:

Yeah, it’s pretty interesting. So the steaming process that reduces the bean flavor and aroma, making it kind of a neutral option. So you can use it for various recipes. Andrea Wien

Jessica Warden [00:10:38]:

I’ve also seen that that particular spec kind of brings out some of the emulsification properties in the chickpea relative to just like a straight chickpea flower. So that probably helps quite a bit when you’re using it in place of eggs.

Elisa Louis [00:10:51]:

Yes. Absolutely. And I mean, aquafaba, that’s been around, but Sure. That’s definitely another one that was featured as an egg replacement. I just think that consumers still want their eggs and in whichever fashion Right. They’re gonna get their eggs or the illusion of eggs.

Jessica Warden [00:11:11]:

Right. Right. So Yeah. That’s for sure. And, I mean, I think it’s just because there are so many trends out there where it just points to people wanting pretty readily available snacks and foods, and eggs are always kind of that tried and true. They’re really easy to make. They’re easy to have on the go. They’re easy to jazz up a little bit if you wanna have a nicer option for them.

Jessica Warden [00:11:32]:

So it’s no surprise that people would also like a substitute for them in times when maybe they’re making dietary changes or when economically, it doesn’t make sense to eat them as much as we, you know, have once the consumption level that we’re used to.

Elisa Louis [00:11:47]:

Absolutely. Yeah. So pretty interesting.

Jessica Warden [00:11:51]:

Yeah. For sure. Well, that’s cool. So, for all of our friends that don’t know what aquafaba is, Lisa, could you tell us a little bit about that one?

Elisa Louis [00:12:00]:

So, I mean, it’s, viscous water from legume seeds like chickpeas.

Jessica Warden [00:12:06]:

Oh.

Elisa Louis [00:12:07]:

That the texture can just be used as an egg replacement. It I think it’s fairly neutral in terms of flavor.

Jessica Warden [00:12:15]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:12:16]:

If you know more about it, Jessica, pipe in.

Jessica Warden [00:12:21]:

From what I remember is that it’s very much more aligned with, like, the egg white portion of the egg. And so you can actually use it as, like, a one for one replacement if you’re trying to do things like meringues and that kind of thing. Me and my daughter have started making a meringue dessert as a Thanksgiving tradition, so I might challenge her this year and say, hey, we should try it with aquafaba and see how well it goes.

Elisa Louis [00:12:43]:

There you go.

Jessica Warden [00:12:44]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:12:44]:

There’s a good challenge. I I like to hear how that turns out.

Jessica Warden [00:12:47]:

It’ll probably end up, disastrously, but, it’ll be fun. That’s your key there.

Elisa Louis [00:12:53]:

So It’s an adventure.

Jessica Warden [00:12:54]:

Yeah. Exactly. Well, beyond that, brands definitely seem to be trying to check more boxes, not only with protein packed enriched items, but definitely still that gut friendly, low carb, and other functional ingredients. We’re just we continue to see some of that.

Elisa Louis [00:13:11]:

Yeah. So what do you think is really driving that trend?

Jessica Warden [00:13:14]:

I think there’s a lot of different factors in play. Certainly, you know, we’ll continue to see the influence of social media and just what influencers and dietitians and the content that’s being put out is driving a lot of consumer opinion. And certainly, protein rich and nutrient dense foods are no exception to the content that’s covered on social media. There’s this people actually wanna live long and they wanna be healthy. Imagine that. And so they’re starting to connect the dots that what you put in your body actually has an impact on that. So definitely protein rich foods and recipes are featured over and over as the population in general focuses on fitness and weight loss. Higher protein has always been part of that because protein helps develop muscle mass.

Jessica Warden [00:14:04]:

And with muscle mass, you have weight loss and strength and and all kinds of things that people find beneficial in the long run to a high quality of life. Mhmm. And I also just I kinda wonder about the impact that we’re starting to see with the GLP one drugs like Ozempic. We’ve just seen how some of those consumer trends and adoption levels of that particular drug have also impacted diets and consumption and grocery levels. There was a report in the Progressive Grocery and Food Dive that basically said that individual grocery spending has decreased by around 6% in the first few months of someone adopting that treatment. And so that percentage is even higher with people in higher income brackets. So as I understand it, there’s this emphasis on eating healthy proteins because as people are consuming less, then that nutrient density really comes into play. So across the board, I think all consumers, you know, really have started to appreciate nutrient density.

Jessica Warden [00:15:05]:

But with this particular niche of consumers that are now kind of changing their shopping habits, I think it’s driving a little bit of those functional needs, even more so. So I also I think I’ve read that a GLP one friendly diet includes things that are rich in fiber and are easily digestible. So it just kind of all builds on itself there.

Elisa Louis [00:15:27]:

Yeah. No. I think you’re right on with the GLP one trend. It’s gonna be really interesting to see how this unfolds as time goes by and that more people are on this medication for longer periods of time. But you definitely see, like, the brands responding to it because you see the GLP one friendly callouts on the packages right now, you know, such as like yeah. Right? Like Yeah. Gut friendly GLP booster or Yeah. Whether that’s on a probiotic powder or and then but, basically, I guess, with the idea that these products could be die designed to help curb cravings and, as you mentioned, improve digestion.

Jessica Warden [00:16:15]:

Right. Right. Well, cool. Well, kind of related to that and digestion is that same topic. I think I’ve been on this podcast just a handful of times, and it seems like gut health and functional foods have come up just about every time. So we’re still seeing that fermentation is still trending. So brands that are featuring fermented yeast protein, pickles, sauerkraut, I know we’ve talked about kimchi in the past, all that kind of stuff. We just continue to see that.

Jessica Warden [00:16:46]:

And I think, again, as more science backs up how important probiotics are to the diet, not just for digestion, but for your overall connection to your brain and how you feel when you’re eating and, you know, some of the links to depression and and how the foods you eat can help with that. The functional snack and meal replacements will continue to be on the rise. One of the things that I actually tried while I was at the show, I I actually didn’t get a consume too many, samples, surprisingly. It’s, like, usually my go to is figure out where all the good samples were. Not this year. I was busy, actually. I don’t I don’t know what the difference was, but but I did try one of these drinkable multivitamins. And so I thought that was really interesting.

Jessica Warden [00:17:31]:

I mean, I think maybe they’re not new or they might have been around a while. But out here in, you know, Fort Morgan, we don’t get a lot of the new and innovative things right away. And so usually, I rely on expo to, like, okay, what’s gonna be my grocery store in a few months? And that was one that I I was kinda counting on to see down the road. Then we also had the collagen products. So just things with collagen. And I’m probably going to butcher this, but I’m guessing chaga is the name of an antioxidant that we’ve seen and l theanine added to coffee. And so those are all things that, again, play into that nutrient density where if you’re drinking a cup of coffee and it has all these extra things added in, then that makes you feel just that much better about the consumption of your daily cup of joe. So

Elisa Louis [00:18:18]:

Yeah. I mean, we certainly don’t have to try very hard to find snacks and products with fun functionality. Yeah. Whether it’s giving you that protein hit, the gut boost, or whatever it is. But how about all the functional beverages? I mean, of all the categories, right? I mean, functional waters. We talked about them last year, but I mean, it’s like, you know, this year?

Jessica Warden [00:18:42]:

Yes. Yeah. Well, and I think just in general, the different variations of water period that you can see every year, year in and year out. And sometimes it’s, you know, your tried and true brands, and other times it’s new and innovative brands. But the amount of innovation that still exists around water is mind blowing to me. But definitely this year, we saw, like, the botanical functional waters, so things with chamomile and rosemary and adaptogens being added to water. So, again, those mental health boosters, memory boosters, prebiotics, probiotics, maca, all those types of things being added into the water. And I think you were telling me about crystal infused water, and their big claim to fame is that it balances your chakra.

Jessica Warden [00:19:28]:

So again, another just kind of mind blowing innovation in the space of water.

Elisa Louis [00:19:34]:

So Who knew? Yeah.

Jessica Warden [00:19:37]:

And then outside water in the beverage category that we continue to see trend is that nonalcoholic cocktail inspired drinks, natural sodas, nonalcoholic, you know, sparkling champagne, all of those types of products. What’s also really interesting is, again, I I don’t get out too often, but when I go to the old the big city there in Denver and we take in a really nice meal, I’m starting to see so many different variations of cocktails and mocktail both as part of just, like, menu mainstays. So I think it just kinda speaks to the fact that that trend is not a trend. It’s probably not going anywhere. It’s gonna keep hanging around. So

Elisa Louis [00:20:14]:

Yeah. And now you don’t have to just go to your restaurant to get a really nice

Jessica Warden [00:20:19]:

Yes.

Elisa Louis [00:20:20]:

Mocktail Yeah. Or nonalcoholic Yeah. Beverage. I mean, you can buy it in the grocery store and and consume it at home.

Jessica Warden [00:20:28]:

Yeah. It’s like you got a mixologist right in your back pocket there.

Elisa Louis [00:20:32]:

That’s for sure. Yeah. Yeah. What about all the electrolytes this year? I mean, again, like, my mind was blown. It just exploded this year. And as you know, my daughter competes in cross country and track in high school and is headed to compete in the fall in college. So here in my household, we’re like, tracking and trying all these different electrolytes, including all these samples that I picked up honestly at expo to see which ones really do the job so that she’s got something that can kind of sustain her when she heads off to college and it’s lightweight. It can be shipped to her super easy.

Elisa Louis [00:21:17]:

I was just truly astounded by all of the options Yeah. In a powder format. Little package.

Jessica Warden [00:21:24]:

Yeah. I agree. Same. I have kiddos that are just active all the time, and a lot of them are outside activities. So we’re just constantly trying to find the best ways to replenish in between three games of whatever each day. So I’ve, as a consumer, been really jazzed about the kind of continued growth in this space. I’m not positive it was at Expo per se, but there’s a an electrolyte, almost like an applesauce pouch that it’s an electrolyte replacement. And I know that’s a a fan favorite at our house, so I think you’ll have to let me know which ones you guys land on as your favorite beverage electrolyte replacements, and we’ll have to compare notes and and try what you’re finding out there.

Jessica Warden [00:22:05]:

So

Elisa Louis [00:22:06]:

Yeah. Absolutely. You know, so far, the ones that are, like, leading the pack, so to speak, are the ones that are infused with the coconut water powder. They just seem the most refreshing Yeah.

Jessica Warden [00:22:19]:

To us.

Elisa Louis [00:22:20]:

And how they’re sweetened is really I mean, these ingredient decks are very diverse. But you see some combination of a little bit of cane sugar and or stevia or some that just have fruit juice powders to add a little sweetness, but really different combinations. And then this year, they’re changing it up. I mean, some of them are including Yerba mate, that tea to give you a boost of energy.

Jessica Warden [00:22:47]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:22:49]:

You’re also seeing ones that have additions to boost your immune system to write. It’s really interesting. So I just see this category continue to expand. And as I shop different grocery stores, I I’m noticing now a section in the store that’s really carved out for electrolytes, both in the powder format. And then you go over to the ready the drink side, and you get a lot of options there. And, again, what I saw at expo was a lot of coconut water driven ready to drink electrolytes and then some with lemon as well. Wow.

Jessica Warden [00:23:28]:

Yeah. Exactly.

Elisa Louis [00:23:29]:

So Well,

Jessica Warden [00:23:30]:

and anytime we hear anything about coconut, our ears at Smirks perk up because that’s one of our favorite categories to work in. So it’s definitely something that we can help with, and we can do both the powders. And so we’re excited. Anytime we see all of the growth in that space, it’s a good fit for us as a sourcing partner. So

Elisa Louis [00:23:49]:

Absolutely. And the fact that we can do the coconut water concentrates as well, which we we can bring those in, and they’re more economical than bringing in just your regular coconut water. So

Jessica Warden [00:24:06]:

Right. It’s

Elisa Louis [00:24:07]:

another great option in this space.

Jessica Warden [00:24:10]:

Yeah. For sure. Well, shifting gears away from, beverage, let’s talk about the gluten free innovations that we saw there at Expo West. By the way, a little fun fact for you. In The US, some about six to eight percent of people have celiac disease or some kind of gluten sensitivity, but around twenty five to thirty percent of people make the choice to eat gluten free or cut their gluten intake. So that’s pretty cool. And I guess that would explain why, we see so many brands delivering some very interesting gluten free options. So some of the ones that we noted were Bedrock Bakers English muffins, which is cassava flour based, and then cinnamon raisins, sourdough, and toast or, excuse me, and Texas toast, sourdough, which actually is sweetened with date syrup.

Jessica Warden [00:25:02]:

So that one’s kind of a nice combination of a alternative natural sweetener and a gluten free option. So kind of packing the punch there.

Elisa Louis [00:25:11]:

For sure.

Jessica Warden [00:25:12]:

Other ones that we’ve started to see grow in popularity are things with buckwheat and sorghum flour bases. So pasta options there. And then a remake of our favorite childhood snack, the rice crispy treats. And I have to say they’re my favorite because I really love the combination of marshmallows and butter. So I don’t know if this nostalgic treat, you know, maybe does that for me. But if I ever grow up and I wanna have a snack that’s better for me, this one has organic ingredients. It’s brown rice and quinoa, which I’m sure has some probably interesting textures. And then the other things that were included in that ingredient deck were the ube and churro and honey matcha.

Jessica Warden [00:25:55]:

Matcha. So it actually sounds quite delightful. I’m just still a kid at heart. Give me all the marshmallow and butter that I could ever consume.

Elisa Louis [00:26:03]:

Yeah. Yeah. They’re certainly changing it up with those different flavor options and a rice crispy. I’m super curious about this one too. But, yeah, of course, it’s definitely throwback to childhood. Right?

Jessica Warden [00:26:17]:

Yes. Exactly. And then some of the other things that we saw were gluten free puff pastries, pancakes and waffles made from einkorn flour, which is the flour just inherently with a lower level of gluten. So, yeah, a lot of really cool things happen in that space. Again, I think we’ll continue to echo that year after year, but it’s always fun to to see what’s new and innovative each year.

Elisa Louis [00:26:42]:

Absolutely. And our household has already picked up some of the products to check them out because we have gluten free folks and our my husband is gluten free. So the Texas Toast has already been included in our Nice. Grocery basket. Pretty good. So That’s awesome. Did you see that, definitely nut butters and seed butters well, not going away, but definitely all over the place at the show.

Jessica Warden [00:27:11]:

Yeah. Yeah. I definitely have noticed that. And it seems like just more brands are developing, whereas, like, before it was, like, a couple of niche brands for years and years. And now it just seems like every year we go, and there’s more brands that are offering their various take on these types of offerings.

Elisa Louis [00:27:29]:

Right. And I mean, from almond to hazelnut, of course, and nut butter combinations mixed together. In other words, you know, they’re just all kinds. And it’s not just standalone products, but they’re incorporated into bars and chocolate and baked goods.

Jessica Warden [00:27:47]:

Right?

Elisa Louis [00:27:48]:

Just all over the place. It it just strikes a chord again as we talk about protein, right? Because these are definitely high protein options to add to your snack.

Jessica Warden [00:28:02]:

Yeah. For sure. And they also seem to just kinda inherit just less fillers than maybe our traditional nut butters that we grew up with. And so that’s also kinda nice to be able to just have something that has a slightly cleaner ingredient deck.

Elisa Louis [00:28:16]:

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I’m I get pretty excited now in the nut butter space in the grocery store just looking at all the possibilities and things to try. And I’ve been kinda making my way through trying different ones. And and now I’m getting into the seed butters. And those were really pretty big at the show. I mean, sunflower, pumpkin, and then I saw black sesame butter with chocolate.

Jessica Warden [00:28:42]:

I had

Elisa Louis [00:28:42]:

to take a sample of that. It’s pretty interesting stuff.

Jessica Warden [00:28:47]:

I think we might have been chatting about this, and I mentioned to you how one time I visited a Shake Shack, and it was a seasonal shake, but they used a black sesame butter in the shake. And so something that has chocolate in it, I’m very intrigued by that. I’ve been trying to kind of figure out how to recreate that particular shake at home. And so maybe with a a product like this, we’d be able to to get that done at our with some vanilla ice cream and some black sesame butter with chocolate.

Elisa Louis [00:29:12]:

Boy, that sounds good, Jessica.

Jessica Warden [00:29:14]:

Earthy and delicious is what that sounds

Elisa Louis [00:29:15]:

like. Bring it on. For sure.

Jessica Warden [00:29:20]:

Oh, well, cool. Yeah. So there was definitely a combination and continuation of seed butters, but kind of right there with some of the flavors that we’re seeing with sesame. There was an explosion of just global flavors this year. So a lot of flavor trends that we are seeing are tied to miso, mushrooms, and just stuff with global influence. I actually got kind of intrigued by you know, we were chatting about some of the global flavor trends, and so I was trying to figure out, like, what is driving some of this. And, of course, all things point back to social media and TikTok and influencers and things like that, but I actually stumbled across the name of this, you know, new cooking craze called chaos cooking. But essentially, it’s this idea of less traditional culinary processes and procedures and recipe following and all of that.

Jessica Warden [00:30:14]:

And so, you know, if you’re not familiar with it, I recommend digging into it a little bit. It seems pretty interesting. But one of the things that I think comes out of that and just overall has been reinforced by restaurants and then now brands is this idea of fusion of flavors where you’d see, you know, things that have maybe more Asian elements being fused with things with Latin American elements. And and so we’re starting to see that at play with brands and the snacks that are are available. So there were a lot of international brands at the show. We saw all over from Japan, Taiwan, Korea, India, all making a strong showing. Some of the highlights were the Korean kimchi salsa and just some freeze dried options and Indian inspired lemonades, which had cardamom and turmeric and cumin and some of the packaged rhodium Mexican chili spiced dried fruits, which are a favorite at my household. Any spiced dried fruit, my kids chow down.

Jessica Warden [00:31:19]:

And then West African phonia rice and phonia rice pilaf. So just a lot of different flavors. And then like we said, we’re starting to see where maybe things that traditionally wouldn’t be paired together are starting to be paired together, and they’re in a snack bar or in a mix or off the shelf product that make it a lot more fun at home to experiment.

Elisa Louis [00:31:39]:

I love this trend. Yeah. I think this is great. And kudos to those folks that are coming up with these new chaotic, right? Just like the creativity

Jessica Warden [00:31:50]:

that goes into it.

Elisa Louis [00:31:51]:

Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s fantastic.

Jessica Warden [00:31:53]:

Yep. Exactly.

Elisa Louis [00:31:54]:

Some of the stuff, you know, that stood out for me was, like, there’s so many more matcha based items this year and that, of course, being a flavor of Japan and then Ube flavored products, and that’s a Philippine, product.

Jessica Warden [00:32:09]:

Right.

Elisa Louis [00:32:09]:

They were abundant. You’ve got that beautiful purple color. And so I even saw, like, Starbucks has a a new drink now.

Jessica Warden [00:32:18]:

Yep.

Elisa Louis [00:32:20]:

Like, ube matcha tea or you know? Anyway, these are super interesting and beautiful. So that’s been something to see and miso having a moment, right?

Jessica Warden [00:32:32]:

Yep. Exactly.

Elisa Louis [00:32:33]:

You know, we saw veggie puffs, chips, eggplant, pizza and salad dressings, all from me. So I mean, I can think back to too many years ago to say on camera of when I studied abroad in Japan back in the day in college, and I just could never fathom seeing miso on a veggie puffed chip or on a pizza here in The US. Yeah. That’s just kind of mind blowing to think about now.

Jessica Warden [00:33:03]:

Oh, that’s cool. Yeah, for sure.

Elisa Louis [00:33:06]:

Yeah. And then I noticed the whole boba trend

Jessica Warden [00:33:11]:

Yep.

Elisa Louis [00:33:12]:

Is just it’s prevalent. Right? I mean, every Yep.

Jessica Warden [00:33:15]:

Guilty is charged. For one of the consumers driving that trend. And I don’t even really like the Taco Bell that much. I like the ones that pop and, like, are full of sugar. That’s me right there and my kids too. So maybe they’ll still put some dates, syrup, and that and that bad boy, and I’ll feel better about it.

Elisa Louis [00:33:31]:

There you go. There you go. Yeah. No. I mean, there is, like, no short and it’s kinda like the you know, you don’t have to go out and Right. Go to the restaurant to consume your drink, your boba, now you can get it at home with a ready to drink boba. So Yep. Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:33:52]:

That’s a a bonus for the folks that just are craving it and have to have it right now. So

Jessica Warden [00:34:00]:

Yes. Exactly. Or if you’re like I said, we live out kind of in a remote place, so boba is not super readily available for us. And so it’s just kind of one of those things that now that we have these brands that are developing these in in home use brands or options, Xfinity products, it’s been wonderful because we don’t have to go out of our way to have something that we enjoy as a family. So

Elisa Louis [00:34:22]:

Absolutely.

Jessica Warden [00:34:24]:

But, yeah, outside of of boba drinks, that plant based milk department seems to keep growing. Items keep getting added to the shelves there. Oat milk and coconut milk are still very popular. But in addition to those, what stood out was how much or prevalent pistachio milk was. And I think what’s interesting about that one is certainly we know in the food space timing is everything. And so I’m sure there were a lot of projects in the R and D pipeline when, pistachios were running at some lower cost basis. And then now, right now, we’re seeing, you know, we’re in an off year for pistachio crop, which has resulted in an uptick in prices. And not just an uptick in prices, but availability has been truly hard to come by, especially in the organic space.

Jessica Warden [00:35:14]:

So it’s kind of interesting to see such a big push at expo because I’m sure, like I said, a lot of these projects were probably in the works, and then now they’re in the commercialization phase. So it’ll be interesting to see if demand remains high or if it’ll be curbed by some of these pricing or if consumers are just loving pistachios enough to pay the prices. So

Elisa Louis [00:35:37]:

it definitely will be interesting to see. In my local store, I saw the pistachio milk for $8 And I was like, wow, okay. But I mean, I am a bit of a sucker for pistachios. And I’m probably one of those people that might go for it because I crave it now and then in whatever form. Speaking of butters too, I mean, the pistachio butter is also a really tasty thing.

Jessica Warden [00:36:06]:

Yep. Yeah. For sure. I remember very distinctly last year, I’m I’m sure the the brand’s probably still around, but that was like one of the hot products as far as taste and, mouthfeel and just overall innovation was a pistachio butter. Yeah. So

Elisa Louis [00:36:24]:

Oh, yeah. That was really tasty.

Jessica Warden [00:36:26]:

I’m sure we’ll continue to see it.

Elisa Louis [00:36:28]:

Absolutely. And just when you thought that oat milk would might be on the downward slope, no way.

Jessica Warden [00:36:36]:

You thought oat milk was on a downward slope, Alicia?

Elisa Louis [00:36:38]:

I know. Not even close. I thought we had already peaked.

Jessica Warden [00:36:44]:

Yeah. I mean, that’s true. Sorry to gauge. Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:36:48]:

We have not peaked with oat milk. Not even close. I mean, the number of oat milk products, creamers.

Jessica Warden [00:36:55]:

Yep.

Elisa Louis [00:36:56]:

It was just all over the show. And I’m gonna be honest with you, like, when they started to become popular, I was like, I’ve gotta adjust my palate to this taste. It was just different. Right?

Jessica Warden [00:37:11]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:37:11]:

But I’m hooked now.

Jessica Warden [00:37:14]:

When I very first tried it, I was actually surprised at the it’s kinda goes back to that nostalgic flavor profile that we have talked about on this podcast and some other trends that we’ve discussed. I don’t know what about it made it taste nostalgic to me. I don’t know if it was just when I’m used to eating oatmeal growing up or or what have you. But I do. I enjoy the taste of it. And it’s not something I will use per se as a personal consumer for one for one milk substitute, but I definitely really enjoy it as an ingredient in certain things that we’re preparing at the house. And my kids love it, and they’ll just drink a cup of it. You know? So it’s definitely done a great job establishing itself as a big player in the marketplace.

Elisa Louis [00:37:55]:

Sure has. And definitely the on the coconut milk side, we saw a whole lot of products around coconut milk. I think, you know, as major importers of coconut milk and coconut cream, We don’t see this trend going away and then coconut milk powder as well just to kind of be an extension to that.

Jessica Warden [00:38:21]:

Yeah. So, as importers of this item, friends, drink up all the coconut milk and let us help you bring it in for some more. We’re also seeing it being used quite heavily in, like, yogurt applications. And, again, the global flavors, it’s a flavor profile that plays well in a lot of different global flavor palettes and cuisines. So certainly around for the long haul, we hope, as the importers of this item.

Elisa Louis [00:38:46]:

Absolutely.

Jessica Warden [00:38:49]:

But, yeah. So but speaking of oats, outside of our normal traditional oat milk application, did you see that there was oat milk being incorporated more into, like, vegan chocolate products? There was an oat milk caramelized coconut cup and then other chocolate bars using oat milk. So certainly kind of an interesting flavor profile, a lot of different flavors in that in that mix there.

Elisa Louis [00:39:14]:

I absolutely saw that. I’m a sucker for all the chocolate products. So I’m really key in on all that. And it is seem to see more and more formulation with the chocolate brands utilizing the oat milk. And I even saw a new chocolate brand that utilized rolled oats in their chocolate as well.

Jessica Warden [00:39:36]:

Interesting. Yeah. Well, chocolate brands, speaking of chocolate, faced some challenges this year. We were talking about pistachios that that had nothing on the cacao market, and we saw one chocolate brand at their booth that just said it had no you know, nothing really around it, no production high production quality type things, and it just had a handwritten sign that said, cocoa stole the budget, but we are still here. And I think that’s hilarious. I mean, it just sums up the coconut market or the cocoa market, excuse me, these days. And it is true when you’re kind of at the whim of some of these commodity fluctuations, you have to get creative. And whether that’s creativity in the formulation by adding things like a creativity in the formulation by adding things like coconut or excuse me, oat milk and other items into your mix.

Jessica Warden [00:40:24]:

But it’s really cool to see how innovative some of the brands were getting, how creative they were getting at the show with their marketing. And then just also the other piece of it is just how cautious they were being in the samples they were handing out. It wasn’t a, you know, everyone take one, please. It was like, here, have this sliver of chocolate and move along. You know?

Elisa Louis [00:40:46]:

You can’t blame them. Absolutely. And, I mean, it’s just a matter of, like, if you really wanted to try something or have that sample really engaging with them and asking questions and whatnot, which our household is quite the consumer of chocolate. So, yeah, it wasn’t hard to engage. But, yeah, it’s been a challenge. And, you know, on the cocoa front, as I learned when I went to the food sustainability conference, back in January in San Francisco, here, we’re really talking about of course, there’s been severe weather patterns in the last few years that have really taken a toll Right. On the farmer’s production. And while cocoa farming used to be a profession that kind of was passed on generation to generation, so to speak, The average farmer, cocoa farmer age is like getting in their fifties and sixties.

Elisa Louis [00:41:44]:

And the younger generation is just not necessarily seeing a future in it. So the reality is that even though maybe just past maybe even couple of weeks, we’ve seen a little softening in the cocoa market pricing, right?

Jessica Warden [00:41:59]:

Definitely.

Elisa Louis [00:42:00]:

Which is good to see.

Jessica Warden [00:42:01]:

Yes.

Elisa Louis [00:42:02]:

But what we kind of have to worry about is like the long term outlook,

Jessica Warden [00:42:07]:

right?

Elisa Louis [00:42:07]:

And what that’s going to look like. And I mean, the honest truth is that we might just simply be paying higher prices, but with the hope that more of the price that we pay is going back to that small farmer because most of these are small farmers

Jessica Warden [00:42:27]:

Right.

Elisa Louis [00:42:27]:

To really make this more of a sustainable industry as a whole. Right. That’s my hope.

Jessica Warden [00:42:33]:

Yeah. For sure. That makes a lot of sense. And it’s oftentimes not a perspective you think about when you’re eating your favorite chocolate bar. And so it’s it’s really quite interesting to to learn that those facts. And overall, we see a lot of those fluctuations, you know, on some of the pricing. But as again, at the consumer level, you don’t always see that in real time. And so the cacao market has gone for a wild ride.

Jessica Warden [00:42:58]:

And, like you said, we’re hoping that we’re gonna kinda see some softening there. But besides chocolate, one of our other favorite vices to talk about is coffee. For those of you who don’t know, I was couldn’t drink coffee for quite some time because it tasted really awful to me actually after I had lost my taste and smell from COVID. And so 2024 was the year that I could drink coffee again, and so it was like a a small victory. And so I was actually paying attention to coffee trends at the show this year. So all good things there. There’s a lot of innovation in that space, kind of similar things that we’re seeing with the other functional beverages. Profi, protein in coffee, so, you know, really a double whammy there.

Jessica Warden [00:43:44]:

And then you have the mushroom and adaptogen infused coffee that’s supposed to help with alertness and memory and stress levels, all of those good things. And, canned coffee with a gut friendly a two milk. So just across the board, a lot of different options there. And then as for tea, gherbal mate tea has had a bigger presence. Often with that higher caffeine content without that big caffeine spike is kinda what they make the claims on. So, again, it’ll be kinda cool to see how all these different brands and products continue to evolve over the next couple years. So

Elisa Louis [00:44:21]:

Yeah. I’m super jazzed about this category too, as you know. And, I mean, did you see the steepable coffee bags that I mean, it’s kinda like tea. But it’s

Jessica Warden [00:44:31]:

not see those. That sounds really cool, actually.

Elisa Louis [00:44:35]:

That was super interesting.

Jessica Warden [00:44:37]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:44:38]:

And speaking of pistachio, we had, like, a pistachio coffee. Coffee alternative, and it contains pistachios, coconut milk powder, and monk fruit.

Jessica Warden [00:44:49]:

But is there caffeine? That’s the real question.

Elisa Louis [00:44:52]:

I mean

Jessica Warden [00:44:55]:

Yeah. Unlikely is the answer to that. Yeah. Exactly. Well, then I don’t want it, Elisa. I want nothing

Elisa Louis [00:45:01]:

to do

Jessica Warden [00:45:01]:

with that. Yeah. Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:45:05]:

Yeah. You know, that’s, for an alternative.

Jessica Warden [00:45:08]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For the non caffeine fiends. I understand. I understand you’re out there. I just don’t know you, and I want nothing to do with you.

Elisa Louis [00:45:17]:

And speaking of alternatives, they had a decaf ready to drink cold brew, which, I mean

Jessica Warden [00:45:25]:

Anybody that’s drinking that is not my friend is what I’m gonna say. That’s all I’m gonna say.

Elisa Louis [00:45:30]:

But it’s a first. I have not seen that before.

Jessica Warden [00:45:32]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:45:33]:

And so yeah. I mean, there’s been definitely some interesting things in the coffee front for sure.

Jessica Warden [00:45:42]:

Well, that’s awesome. Also, I think tied with coffee is the natural sweeteners that we’ve alluded to and have chatted about in the past. But we like to see the sugar free or sweeten naturally things or, like, the cleaner ingredient decks, when we go to the show. And it seems like there were some booths that were doing a lot of the made with real sugar, which kind of goes to some of the backlash boom of some of the artificial sweeteners we’ve seen in the past. But I think that’s also part of why we’re seeing dates have a special moment, because there’s a lot of date based sweets and butter stuffed dates and date sugar and date syrup. And then, of course, tried and true maple syrup, you know, all these fun sweeteners and honey. So just all the things we’ve chatted about before continue to be there. And I think that’s also where we start to see some of the fun plays on sweet and savory, and some of those things being swapped out for one another, or, like, you would see a honey where you would normally because it’s just there’s some of the savory elements being implemented with some of those things.

Jessica Warden [00:46:44]:

So it’ll be cool to see how how natural sweeteners continue to take up space on the shelves.

Elisa Louis [00:46:51]:

Yeah. Super interesting to see how this, ebbs and flows, this whole category. And what I did find that was different, I talked to one chocolate company that explained to me that instead of using other types of sweeteners, they were literally taking fresh fruit, drying it themselves and adding it to flavor their chocolate bar as an alternative to cane sugar or another sweetener. And they were truly delicious. Yeah. And I thought expensive,

Jessica Warden [00:47:22]:

but it sounds amazing.

Elisa Louis [00:47:24]:

Yeah. Yeah. The cost and then the labor involved with that is a lot.

Jessica Warden [00:47:29]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:47:29]:

But the concept

Jessica Warden [00:47:31]:

Sure.

Elisa Louis [00:47:32]:

And the execution was quite lovely, I gotta say.

Jessica Warden [00:47:35]:

Well, I imagine if if that, you know, is something that catches on, then you start to get more mainstream processing methodologies and potentially can bring down some costs and those kinds of things. But even if it remains a niche item, it’s still fun to kinda get to have those and and have those as alternatives to everyday sweeteners. So

Elisa Louis [00:47:55]:

Absolutely.

Jessica Warden [00:47:57]:

We’ve already chatted about nostalgic flavors or at least hinted at it, you know, here and there. But I don’t know if we would be able to get away with not talking about nostalgic flavors when talking about expo trends. Did you notice how they’re still all over the place, still on the rise? We’re definitely seeing that comfort food flavors making a comeback. PB and J profiles are still around. You know, Shirley Temples, I think we talked about that that last year too, so they’re still there and prevalent. And then the pretzel, the pretzel’s making you know, it’s having its moment. And it’s kind of fun because there’s the gluten free and protein pack options that we’ve already talked about. But then just in general, you know, kind of your average pretzel snack with just seasonings and nice solid flavors, they’re everywhere as well.

Jessica Warden [00:48:46]:

And I know pretzels are a favorite snack around our house in all variations, and so it’ll be kind of fun to continue to see that one grow as well.

Elisa Louis [00:48:57]:

Absolutely. Lots of fun stuff in terms of nostalgia at the show. And it was not only in snacks, but I saw it everywhere in the marketing approach that the brands are taking, you know, did you? But before I move on with the marketing, I just have to see if you saw this. Did you see a root beer float flavored popcorn?

Jessica Warden [00:49:23]:

No. I did not see that. That sounds delicious and gross all at the same time.

Elisa Louis [00:49:29]:

It’s been a minute since I’ve had even just a root beer float, but let alone even thinking about a classic snack like popcorn being flavored with root beer

Jessica Warden [00:49:39]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:49:40]:

Float. But, you know, so, like, fun. I mean, just genuinely fun.

Jessica Warden [00:49:45]:

That is awesome. And I think it’s kind of it’s really interesting because we do run into so many of the flavor companies, and you just always see all the different innovations at just, like, the very base ingredient level. And so then to see it on the actual finished product and having that root beer float flavor applied to popcorn and and getting to kinda taste that, that sounds really awesome. I I missed that one. So now I’m gonna see if I can make up for it and find it after the show here. I’ve gotta

Elisa Louis [00:50:12]:

try that. Gotta gotta find it. Yeah. But as I said, on the branding side, there’s just so much going on. And the companies are incorporating those throwback colors and designs and fonts in their packaging.

Jessica Warden [00:50:26]:

Sure. Yep.

Elisa Louis [00:50:27]:

And it just really evokes that sense of playfulness. And, you know, I just love it. The booth designs, the clothing that the people are wearing that are in the booths. It just all just was playful and fun and just, you know, took me back a decade or two or three, you know, I don’t want to date myself, but it did. It just, this is kind of fun to see that. But in total contrast to that, what about all the really edgy marketing

Jessica Warden [00:50:59]:

Oh, yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:51:00]:

That we saw? I mean, you

Jessica Warden [00:51:02]:

know, I’m talking about right. Consumer. Right? Yeah. And there’s the attention grabbing brand names and graphics. We’re all familiar with liquid death at this point. And our booth was luckily positioned right next to Death Wish Coffee. So Jason befriended them day one, somehow finagled his own very big coffee, you know, not a sample size coffee cup. And it seemed like he got free refills pretty much whenever he wanted.

Jessica Warden [00:51:29]:

So, you know, that that boost is there and all the marketing that goes with that and Punk Bunny coffee and just so many more different branding things. And kind of in in preparation for this podcast, I was just researching, and I actually had a note specifically about marketing about again, it just kinda goes back to some of the influencers. And just in general, the younger generations respond very well to some of these. And they’re not really innovations in marketing, but it’s just like that recycling, but still coming out with that creative content. And so it seems like all of those things will be here to stay because the consumer appeal is really what’s driving a lot of that stuff. So pretty cool. It’s always fun. I love the production quality of all these different things and the marketing messages.

Jessica Warden [00:52:15]:

And but at the end of the day, I think my favorite is still going to be the one that that was a handwritten sign with nothing else that said that Coco stole our budget. Like, that’s classic.

Elisa Louis [00:52:26]:

So Yes.

Jessica Warden [00:52:28]:

But yeah. I mean, after the branding, we can kinda transition from our branding notes into just one other trend we wanted to chat about was the upcycled and sustainable ingredients trend. Again, I think this has just been a every time I I chat with you on these podcasts or my colleagues on these podcasts, Lisa, we’re always talking about this, so it’s pretty cool. So what is your take on some of these things, especially being fresh off the sustainability summit and that kind of thing?

Elisa Louis [00:52:56]:

Yeah. I really took a notice to it for sure. And definitely what stuck out for me was there’s upcycled rice. I mean, that was a new thing.

Jessica Warden [00:53:07]:

Yeah. Okay.

Elisa Louis [00:53:07]:

Where they’re utilizing whole and kind of barely broken rice and

Jessica Warden [00:53:11]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:53:12]:

Popping that into a bag. I mean, for a lot of people, I I don’t think, you know, it matters so much, how big that kernel of rice is. So Right. That was cool. That’s definitely taking a product that, you know, that might end up going to waste and putting it on the market. So I thought that was neat.

Jessica Warden [00:53:33]:

I think what’s interesting about that in general is that, you know, there’s so many practices that were adopted for so long because brands maybe had the consumer resource or maybe whatever that drove them to think, hey. We have to be at this caliber of whatever product. And just as you shift from one generation of consumer to the next, some of the level of care at the consumer level, like you just mentioned, is probably diminished. Maybe not where the brands didn’t know it at first. And so there’s just been this, you know, really fun revelation in the last few years of people kinda digging in and understanding that some of the sensitivities that consumers had ten, twenty, thirty years ago don’t exist anymore. And so then now that opens the door to all these upcycled options where if the dried fruit isn’t quite as pretty or the rice isn’t quite the perfect size or whatever, you’re not going to get those same maybe consumer complaints that once upon a time existed. So that’s kinda neat.

Elisa Louis [00:54:31]:

No. And it yeah. And in contrast, because usually those products are not necessarily the cheapest, but people are willing to pay a little bit of a premium for something that they know is not going into the landfill and maybe has in some cases, more nutrients in certain products. That would be the case. So yeah, it’s a super interesting trend and regenerative organic was a big topic at the sustainability conference that I was at. And I saw so many regenerative organic certified and there’s other certifications as well for this same regenerative topic. But in terms of farming practices, whatever certifier they use, it proliferated the show. Right.

Elisa Louis [00:55:24]:

I mean, we just saw more and more, and we talked about it last year, but dried fruits, coconut products, rice, olives, pasta, coffee, tea, chocolate, oats, and more. It was there.

Jessica Warden [00:55:37]:

Right. Well and I mean, if you think about it, at one point, we were doing more of an educational bit on one of our podcasts about just even what is regenerative organic. And, you know, I think we’re getting to the point more and more now where it’s not even an educational piece anymore. It’s just, hey. Do you have that item in this Mhmm. Option? And so it’s really cool how it’s just continued to like you said, proliferate is the best word to describe it. So

Elisa Louis [00:56:02]:

Yep. Absolutely. And it’s one of the things that I learned at the conference that is growing at a rapid pace in terms of consumer understanding. So and once people are aware of it, it just just just kind of exploding.

Jessica Warden [00:56:20]:

Yeah.

Elisa Louis [00:56:21]:

The challenge now is to keep up the growth because it’s not an easy process to get certified. Whichever certified buyer you use, it’s a challenge. So when I see a brand coming online, like I just saw on the news, a meat company coming online with it just recently. Yeah. It’s impressive because I know there’s a really, a lot of work put into that. It’s a lot of effort, but you can respect the work they’ve done within their supply chain to make that happen.

Jessica Warden [00:56:53]:

Yeah. And I mean, one thing that’s to that exact point is interesting is that some of the practices that are required to become certified in regenerative agriculture are not new. It’s just the documentation and the and the process around it. So it’s kind of fun in that some of these practices that are very inherent into this certification have been around and they’ve been utilized and they’re not new to these farmers. And so now it’s just kind of it’s basically saying, oh, well, we’ve been doing that all along. Now let’s let the world know that we’ve been doing it. And so that’s what’s really neat about this particular certification.

Elisa Louis [00:57:28]:

That is remarkable too what simple things like cover cropping can do

Jessica Warden [00:57:34]:

Yeah. Exactly.

Elisa Louis [00:57:36]:

To benefit the soil. So yeah. Absolutely. Super interesting.

Jessica Warden [00:57:41]:

Well, thanks for the insight there. Yeah. And kind of not really in the same vein here, but just, again, more trends and more, you know, kind of in the same vein from the eco friendly standpoint is on the household product side. I mean, that’s one of the cool parts about expo is it’s not just food. It’s, you know, that we’ve got personal care items and we have household products and just a whole bevy of things to look at. And so same thing there. We continue to see growth and innovation in the space around the eco friendly cleaning products and soaps. And not just in the ingredients that are being used, but in the actual, you know, mechanism that they’re being commercialized, like, with soap, we’re seeing the bars and with laundry detergent and things like that.

Jessica Warden [00:58:25]:

We’re seeing sheets. So in addition to becoming more eco friendly with less plastics involved and less waste overall or less even resources that go into the manufacturing of some of these things. We’re actually seeing from a consumer side how easy it is to use some of these new formats. You know, like, if you’re traveling, a washing machine heat in your suitcase is a lot easier to travel with or in some cases saves you from stopping at Target once you get where you’re going. You don’t have to run and, you know, run out to the store to to get any additional toiletries and and household products. So it’s really fun to kinda see the popularity that’s coming online. And speaking of traveling with the bar soaps and things, there’s all these options where now you don’t have to worry about liquids and getting through security and or packing them without them getting all over your clothing by the time that you land. So I think it’s a really cool product that checks a lot of boxes.

Jessica Warden [00:59:26]:

And so it’ll be exciting to see how that category just continues to take off, and we’re just seeing a lot more offerings than we ever did before. So some of the eco friendly packaging that we’re seeing is tied to reusable plant based water bottles, which are being used as an alternative to even some of the aluminum and things like that. And then we did see some aluminum packaged olive oil to refill with your glass bottle. So, like, some of these packaging options are being utilized in conjunction with each other to reduce waste overall and kinda make it easier for the consumer to not have to continue to buy the same product over and over again. You could just do the refills. So that’ll be interesting to see how that continues to develop. So what do you think about that, Elisa?

Elisa Louis [01:00:17]:

Yeah. I loved seeing some of these things that you talked about, Jessica, because they we had talked about some of these eco friendly packaging ideas at the food sustainability summit that I went to. And I was heartened to see that some of the speakers there and brands, they were talking about how they were utilizing recycled plastic for their containers. There were also much more corrugated paper being used instead of plastic. And when you think about those, whether it’s the bar of soap or the shampoo bar or the conditioner bar, you don’t have to wrap that in plastic necessarily. That can just be a simple corrugated paper wrap. It definitely gives you a lot more options that where we can kind of pivot away from plastic a little bit and sure. Even some of the packaging that’s compostable, you know, the one there’s a chocolate brand that uses a compostable paper to wrap their chocolate in, which is really cool.

Jessica Warden [01:01:26]:

Right.

Elisa Louis [01:01:27]:

So, yeah, I feel like expo west did not disappoint. No. You know? It barely does.

Jessica Warden [01:01:35]:

It’s a it’s a great show. Yeah. It’s honestly one of those things just like me in every corner that you look, there’s something interesting. I mean, even if you don’t make it through all of the halls and all of the places, you’re still going to find something that’s cool and either looks cool because of the marketing or tastes good or is innovative or is just truly interesting. And then, you know, you also get your mix of finding out things that you know you won’t buy when you get home because you just didn’t quite sit well with. Yes. So it’s good from that standpoint as well.

Elisa Louis [01:02:09]:

Yeah. There’s all things for all people, really.

Jessica Warden [01:02:12]:

Yes. Exactly.

Elisa Louis [01:02:14]:

Who knew that I’d find a a tasty vegan hard boiled egg made for nuts? And I

Jessica Warden [01:02:20]:

I would never have if, like, we were putting bets down before the show and Elisa said, hey, I need to find a tasty vegan hard boiled egg. How many options do you think we’d find? I would say zero.

Elisa Louis [01:02:31]:

Yeah. So that was super interesting. And there’s always also, like, this level of excitement. Right?

Jessica Warden [01:02:39]:

Yes.

Elisa Louis [01:02:40]:

And wonder about what you’re gonna see. And it’s really like the excitement is contagious. I mean, it’s so fun to kind of discover these different things and talk to these entrepreneurs that are behind these young emerging brands. And there’s just that element of surprise when we walk down the rows about what we’re gonna see.

Jessica Warden [01:03:03]:

Right.

Elisa Louis [01:03:03]:

And I hope that we summed up some of that here today, like, for folks that couldn’t make it to the show. Right. But, yeah. You know? And then, of course, there’s those element of surprises that happen at every trade show because I’ve been to trade shows for so many years. You know, I didn’t expect us to get locked out of our rental house on the first day. So That was

Jessica Warden [01:03:25]:

totally your fault, Elisa. You should really figure that out. No, I’m just kidding. No, it’s it that’s just it. It’s, you know, it’s always an adventure. It’s so fun to get go to the show, see our colleagues, see our customers, see the folks that we, you know, source things from all over the world. They come. They chat with our team.

Jessica Warden [01:03:47]:

And it’s outside of just the entirety of the show, it’s always fun at the Smirk’s booth. And it just seems like there’s always a buzz there. And so it was a pleasure getting to attend again this year with you and even more of a pleasure to get to recap it with you. So I don’t think that we forgot anything. But if we did, hit us up via email to tell us, you know, if you saw trends that you want us to dig into or have, any ideas on things you want to source, Smark’s team’s here for you. So Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you

Elisa Louis [01:04:23]:

so much, Jessica. It’s been a blast. And yes, that kind of wraps up our recap for expo west twenty twenty five. And we thank everybody for listening, but we definitely want you to stay tuned because we are going to give you the latest market report in the next segment of this podcast. So please don’t go away. Thanks again for your time as always and catches us smirks.com or what’s new smirks.com to reach out. Take care.

Jessica Warden [01:04:54]:

Awesome. Thanks, Elisa.

Elisa Louis [01:04:56]:

See you.

Garrett McBride [01:04:59]:

Hey, everybody, and welcome to the market report associated with episode 17 of the Get the Scoop with Smirks podcast. This one’s gonna be a little bit different. Today’s date is 04/03/2025. And as some of you may or may not be aware, the United States government, the president of The United States announced a multitude of potential reciprocal tariffs imposed on goods imported from countries all across the globe. As such, we are waiting. Smirk’s is waiting to determine what the actual impact of these tariffs looks like, where the dust will settle, which countries will be impacted, which ingredients will be impacted, and how everything will flow through to impact the markets and ultimately our cost and price structure. So as of this time, Smirk’s is not comfortable providing any market information, too many things up in the air, too much dust yet to settle. So please bear with us as we navigate these unprecedented and challenging times and we will provide you with market information as soon as we feel it’s responsible and reliable to do so.

Garrett McBride [01:06:13]:

In the meantime, if you could please follow us on LinkedIn, we’ll have information posted on there in almost real time. And also subscribe to our newsletter through the smirks.com website. Both ways that you can stay in touch with Smirk’s and with the most up to date information that we have and as close to real time as we can get it to you. So again, no market report this month as a result of the tariffs that are being announced and imposed currently as we speak until we figure out exactly what’s going on and exactly how it’s going to impact Smirk’s and all of our customers and partners up and downstream. Thanks again for your support, and we’ll have some information to you as soon as it’s responsible and reliable to do so.

Garrett McBride [01:06:59]:

So that’s it for this episode of Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast, where we bring you the latest market reports, insights into bulk ingredients and their origins, as well as in-depth product information. So if you have any questions, feedback, or just want a sample to taste for yourself, visit the smirks.com website or email us at what’snew@smirks.com. Never miss a future episode. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in.

The post Transcript: ExpoWest 2025 Highlights and Trends appeared first on Bulk Ingredient Network.

Garrett McBride [00:00:09]:
Hey there. Welcome to Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast, where bulk ingredient conversation happens. We’re sharing our knowledge and expertise as bulk ingredient importers, tapping into the latest trends we are seeing and commenting on what that means for natural food businesses as they approach ingredient purchasing, product development, and marketing. You’ll hear the latest market reports, ingredient specifications, and product applications from SMERC’s in house experts, as well as origin stories from our growers and processors around the world. Listen in for the scoop on what’s happening with bulk ingredients.

Garrett McBride [00:00:50]:
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Get the Scoop with Smirk’s. I’m Elisa Louis, and today we’re diving into the fascinating world of co packers. Whether you’re a seasoned industry professional or a curious listener, this episode is packed, pun intended, with insights you don’t wanna miss. To give you some background here, The US food and beverage co packing industry was valued at 33 and a half billion in 2023 and is projected to reach 40,300,000,000.0 by 02/1930, according to horizon Grand View research. And while exact figures are really unclear, a large percentage of food startups depend on co packers. However, despite its significant size, the co packing industry remains surprisingly opaque, making it a crucial yet elusive part of the food supply chain. Smirk’s, an importer and supplier of bulk organic and non GMO conventional ingredients, collaborates with a wide range of co packers and co manufacturers. Whether you’re part of a consumer packaged goods startup or managing a mid size or large brand, you’re likely seeking insights on how to build and strengthen successful partnerships with your co packers.

Garrett McBride [00:02:03]:
Today, we’re thrilled to have one of our key co packer partners with us to share valuable perspectives. Joining me today is Jason Ludtke, the director of business development for ZoRoCoPackaging. ZoRoCoPackaging is a leading co packing and co manufacturing company in the food industry based in Caldwell, Idaho. And I also have my trusty cohost with us, Garrett McBride, our own SMERC’s VP of operations. And today, we’re leaning on Garrett to bring us his unique perspective as well as someone who’s worked on both sides, working for a CPG brand and in partnership with co packers like Zorroko. Welcome, Jason and Garrett.

Jason Luedtke [00:02:44]:
Hi, Elisa. I’m excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Garrett McBride [00:02:48]:
Thanks, Elisa. I’m looking forward to this conversation. Jason and I go back far enough that I even know what he looks like without a beard, if you can imagine that.

Jason Luedtke [00:02:56]:
That is true.

Garrett McBride [00:02:57]:
I think that as a person that’s beard was to cover up all the, facial tattoos?

Jason Luedtke [00:03:04]:
And neck tattoos.

Garrett McBride [00:03:05]:
And the neck tats?

Jason Luedtke [00:03:07]:
Well, you know, the beard is a joke. It’s become my brand. It’s this kind of a silly thing. But, honestly, walking around super busy trade shows, I usually say look for the big goofy guy with the glasses and beard, and it works pretty well, to be honest with you.

Garrett McBride [00:03:22]:
So Yeah. It’s tough to miss.

Garrett McBride [00:03:24]:
Well, we’re here to support. You know? We just had to put our beards on.

Jason Luedtke [00:03:27]:
I like it. I like it. To To

Garrett McBride [00:03:29]:
have a little bit of fun.

Jason Luedtke [00:03:30]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Garrett McBride [00:03:31]:
For sure.

Jason Luedtke [00:03:32]:
That’s a good one. I’m just jealous. Good on that one.

Garrett McBride [00:03:35]:
It’d take me thirty years. I wouldn’t even come close to that impressive thing.

Elisa Louis [00:03:40]:
Yeah. We’re all about having fun here, and you’re definitely a fun business partner friend of ours, Jason. And we’d love for you though to seriously share a little bit about your professional background and, hey, tell us a fun fact about yourself.

Jason Luedtke [00:03:57]:
Well, so food industry reinvented into the food industry in in 2013 at ZoRoCo. I have, done my entire food industry tenure with ZoRoCo. Before that, I was a land surveyor. That’s what brought me to Idaho. I came up and, was the surveyor of record on one of the larger master plant communities in the Boise area and spent, my first four years in Idaho wandering around the woods, by myself all the every day. And it was fantastic, to be honest with you. And then, you know, some things changed with the housing industry, and it was time to find a different direction. And, here we are with ZoRoCo, and I couldn’t be happier.

Jason Luedtke [00:04:45]:
I’ve found a family here and some excellent mentors and leaders, and here we are, what is that, twelve years, thirteen years later, and I have a whole host of industry friends, including Garrett and all the guys at Smirk’s and many other brands and suppliers around, the food industry. So fun fact, I’m a farm kid from Montana. So that implies that everyone thinks I’m a cowboy or, at least a ranch kid or whatever, which I am, did all the different things. But I have never ridden a horse in my life, except for one exception. And that was when I was about eight years old through a crowded bar, which really surprised the heck out of my mom when she, saw me walking through, a crowded bar on a horse. So other than that, no horseback riding in my, 50 years of life.

Elisa Louis [00:05:40]:
Okay. Alright. Quite the intro. Awesome. Well, I’m I love hearing about your background, and I’d love to hear actually a little bit about ZoRoCo, and I think our listeners would too.

Jason Luedtke [00:05:54]:
Sure.

Elisa Louis [00:05:54]:
I was kinda digging around, poking around about ZoRoCo, and and I happen to notice that it says the company was founded in 02/2007, and I’m like, that sounds awfully familiar. Smirk’s was founded in 02/2007. Am I right on that?

Jason Luedtke [00:06:09]:
You are. You’re absolutely correct. So ZoRoCowas born as Zorroko, ZoRoCopackaging the brand in 02/2007. There was an existing company that the owners have purchased and began managing a couple years before that under a different name. It was the fledgling, call it seed of what our frozen division now is. And they quickly grew the company past the small space that they had originally taken over. When they left that original facility and they built our first standalone structure, they needed to leave the original name behind and rebrand as a new DBA company name. That was 02/2007, and that’s when ZoRoCo, as the brand, was born.

Jason Luedtke [00:07:02]:
It’s it’s really when we built our own Greenfield facility that is still operational and in the parking lot next to where I’m sitting today.

Elisa Louis [00:07:12]:
Alright. And could I ask I mean, ZoRoCo is certainly a unique name, and I think our listeners are gonna wanna hear the backstory about how the name came about and then the company’s interesting green dragon logo. What’s the backstory on that?

Jason Luedtke [00:07:29]:
Yeah. The it’s a fun story, and it’s always part of the tour. So if you’ve come to ZoRoCo and you’ve got a tour from me or any of my colleagues, usually, there’s a stop. There’s a little, plaque on the wall that has the logo. It’s really done its job as a brand icon. It is eye catching. It it’s a fun story to tell. And so it’s a green Kirin dragon, and the Kirin dragon, it’s a mystical dragon from the Japanese culture.

Jason Luedtke [00:08:01]:
The cofounder of the company was a Japanese gentleman by Heritage. His daughter, only daughter, our owner were husband and wife. And, you know, it’s tough to rebrand as a company, but they wanted to honor Mark Ichabassu was his name, his Japanese heritage. And so they picked the Kirin Dragon with a little homage to the Japanese culture. And then the name itself, Zorroko, if you notice or you know the logo, it’s got capitals and lowercase. And so the Zoho and the Rho and the Ko are really the first beginning names of the three grandchildren. So there’s three grandchildren. The Zoe is the Zoe.

Jason Luedtke [00:08:52]:
And if you know the dragon very well, it has a tiara on top because she’s the princess of the family.

Elisa Louis [00:09:00]:
Love it.

Jason Luedtke [00:09:01]:
If you know the logo well, the dragon is also holding a samurai sword. Well, the ro is Ronin. He is the middle son, happens to also be in the middle of the Zoroku name. And, Ronin is a masterless samurai, so that’s why the samurai sword is, being held by the dragon. And then the oldest brother, Cole, whose middle name also happens to be Kirin, which is the mystical Kirin dragon horse, is the last of the Zou, Roa, and co. So, really, what you have is the children and therefore grandchildren of the founders, Zoe, Ronan, and Cole. And that that’s where Zouroko comes from. That’s cool.

Elisa Louis [00:09:44]:
That’s really cool. You know, I love the fact that it that there’s so much meaning baked into that name and logo, and it’s, like, such a powerful symbol as well.

Jason Luedtke [00:09:56]:
Yeah. It’s really been a a fun brand to represent, and I couldn’t be prouder for sure. So

Elisa Louis [00:10:02]:
So, Jason, from your perspective, I mean, if we get into kinda talking about what is the role of a co packer, how do you define that?

Jason Luedtke [00:10:10]:
It’s such a wide question, and I wanna answer it succinctly. So first and foremost, I wanna say I wanna I mentioned earlier, I’ve only really worked at one co packer, one co man, and that’s ZoRoCo. And so I’m speaking from how we do it. I can’t promise that’s how everyone in the industry does it, but we are pretty proud of how we’ve built our system of co packing. And so I’m really speaking from that side of things. And so I in our opinion, co packers, co mans and there’s a little differentiation between those two terms, but we know where we are in the industry. You You know, ZoRoCoitself doesn’t own or sell any of its own brands, and so we’re not out competing for any market share with the brands we represent. We’re really here to create the opportunities for our brand partners.

Jason Luedtke [00:11:03]:
We’re here to add value to their business. We provide the superstructure, the equipment, the expertise, but at the end of the day, we’re a service provider. We’re a problem solver, and we’re a path to their scalability. We don’t grow unless our brands grow, And so we’re really here to serve and support the brands that are out there fighting in the food industry to build their names and build their own sales. I mean, it that’s as simple as it gets really as what a co packer should be focused on.

Elisa Louis [00:11:35]:
So just a follow-up to that. I mean, could you kind of define the difference a little bit for our listeners between a co packer and a co manufacturer just so that’s a little bit more clear?

Jason Luedtke [00:11:46]:
This is, again, my terminology. I’m sure people will debate it. Maybe we’ll get a hot viral debate going online about the two differences. But in my mind, co packing is really more of a bag conversion. It’s probably taking, maybe there’s a limited amount of mixing and then filling, but it’s really moving something from a large package into a smaller package. Co manufacturing is when you’re adding true value. Let’s say baking a cookie. Let’s say emulsifying a plant based butter.

Jason Luedtke [00:12:20]:
It’s doing a a manufacturing process versus just putting something from a bigger bag into a smaller bag ready for the retail shelf. So in a very simplified version, that’s how I kinda think of it as the differentiation. Copac is just it’s more of a change of size. Co manufacturer, you’re doing a a manufacturing process. Your value adding something from base ingredients to a finished product, if that makes sense.

Elisa Louis [00:12:48]:
Yeah. So I’d imagine that it’s crucial to understand those differences. And and of course, every business is gonna wanna think about what their own needs are and whether they’re they need that extra level of that co manufacturing capability, or if they’re just looking for somebody who can pack a product from a bulk package into an eight ounce bag. Right?

Jason Luedtke [00:13:14]:
Yep. Yep. You’re right on point. That that’s kinda how I define it in my mind. And, you know, it’s a blurry line. There’s no right or wrong answer, honestly, but I think you’re definitely right on point.

Elisa Louis [00:13:25]:
Great. Well, switching over to you, Garrett, what do you think of in terms of you know, you’ve worked with brands. You’ve you’ve been a co packer before. You have these different perspectives. I mean, what’s your take on this role?

Garrett McBride [00:13:41]:
Yeah. I have a unique perspective in that I’ve done kind of every piece of the puzzle along the way. And I agree with everything that Jason said. Additionally, you know, from a brand perspective, working with a great contract manufacturer allows you to focus on the other non manufacturing aspects of scaling your business, you know, allows you to free up capital that can be allocated to growth elsewhere like sales, which is ultimately what we’re all after. In many cases, CoMans also offer value beyond the manufacturing and beyond the packaging. There might be food science, there might be R and D help you know, for development and commercialization support for new programs and products. Outsourcing manufacturing operations can be a really effective strategy for brands to allow them to scale quickly while remaining flexible and agile, which is extremely important for brands from the smallest to the largest scale.

Elisa Louis [00:14:36]:
Awesome.

Jason Luedtke [00:14:38]:
Well, one little thought that I just had, and I didn’t think of it until Garrett mentioned that, but the auditing side is super crucial as well. I mean, you know, we carry, BRC, a plus, you know. And if you’re a brand growing into large scale retail, to get into all the major retailers, you have to have a fully compliant, fully high level auditing package. And that’s something that a brand, even a a midsize brand, trying to do on their own is you just don’t realize what a huge bite of the apple that really is. So the auditing and the food safety package is probably equally as important as the equipment and actual operational acumen that comes with, running the plant is is really having that the certification and the paperwork side to back it all up. So that’s a pretty important piece of it as well.

Garrett McBride [00:15:35]:
Yeah. That’s a great point. And, you know, along with that comes the quality department that any competent contract manufacturer should have, you know, as a brand or as a another party associated. We’re relying on the contract manufacturers quality team and processes to ensure our collective success. So super important piece of it along with certifications, the audits, you know, food safety and quality can be understated in terms of importance in this world.

Elisa Louis [00:16:04]:
Great stuff. Yeah. So with that, Jason, I’m just kinda curious As far as your thoughts on this, what do you think kind of the secret is to a successful and productive CPG brand and co packer relationship since this is so crucial?

Jason Luedtke [00:16:23]:
Yeah. The the secret sauce, I think it’s probably gonna sound a little bit too warm and fuzzy when we’re talking about technical operations and things like that. But at the end of the day, it comes down to trust, in my opinion. It’s pure and simple. When you trust one another and it it’s a two way street to be very clear. I mean, the the packer has to trust the relationship of the brand, and the brand has to trust that the co man is going to do the right thing, that they’re on top of things. And so it’s really a a trust relationship. But trust isn’t given, trust is earned.

Jason Luedtke [00:17:01]:
And so I think maybe the magic, honestly, is how do you get to that trust? You know, it it’s not something that either side necessarily has right away. The co pack industry has had a black eye in the past, and has got some, you know, there’s some horror stories out there. And so, you know, I think brands inherently come in with maybe a little bit of defensiveness sometimes. And so you have to earn that trust and get to that partnership foundation. And, and I think what we’ve learned in our philosophy of doing this over the years is you do that through complete transparency. There’s nothing that we do in our organization that isn’t able to be seen by the brands in a live twenty four seven scenario, we do it with high integrity. We’re usually calling you before you know that there’s a problem. That’s how you solve problems.

Jason Luedtke [00:17:57]:
And, you know, along with that integrity and that that’s a doing the right thing kinda core values type of statement, but it really is what leads to good communication and high performance as well. And so we talk constantly with our brands. They have access to their own information, and then you have to perform. I mean, that’s the other thing is at the end of the day, you have to execute against your POs. You have to hit fulfillment. We make fulfillment guarantees. And if you do that and you do those things right, what you end up with is trust. And then when the problems that ultimately arise come up, you tackle them together.

Jason Luedtke [00:18:36]:
And to me, that’s the ultimate most important part of a Copac brand relationship is really just boils down to that trust factor.

Elisa Louis [00:18:48]:
Great stuff. Garrett, I definitely wanna hear your thoughts on this one too. What do you think?

Garrett McBride [00:18:52]:
Yeah. Truss is absolutely right. I mean, Jason’s spot on with that. Without that, it’s it’s very challenging to have a a true meaningful partnership. You know, really effective communication and transparency are are key components of that brand and and co man relationship. The contract manufacturer you choose should be aligned with your organization’s strategies and and should take on a supporting role in your growth and not be a constraint and not be a roadblock. They shouldn’t be standing in the way of your growth and your progress. They should be an active partner.

Garrett McBride [00:19:23]:
And that’s super important. I think the most productive partnerships are the ones that allow all the parties to grow and get better together. It’s not just a one-sided thing. It never will be. It never should be. It’s a collaborative effort. You know, one person succeeds. We all succeed.

Garrett McBride [00:19:41]:
Doing business with your co man shouldn’t feel like you’re dragging an anchor behind the boat. You know, we’ve all been there at some point. If you’ve been in this business long enough and it’s not fun, Having that good true partner that you can trust and that you can have faith in to run a very important part of your business, you know, manufacturing is so important. Can’t tell you how many times I was in, in the facility in in Idaho with Jason. You know, how we’d roll up our sleeves, put on our hair nets, put on our gloves, we’d do the r and d, we’d do the line trials together. Being able to be hands on and and completely cohesive and transparent is is immensely helpful in in building the relationships and maintaining that that ongoing rapport.

Jason Luedtke [00:20:20]:
Yeah. We love it when our brands come in and take part in their own activities. The brands know what they want out on the shelves in the customer’s hands, and we can listen and we can read and we can learn and we can even control samples. But when a brand is right there with you out on the floor, seeing it happen real time, they’re able to look you in the eye and say, this is what I expected to see, and then you just start to build. Otherwise, you’re on the phone back and forth, and you’re guessing, hey. Is this the exact right color? Is this the exact right texture? It seems so, but then it becomes my judgment, not the brand’s judgment. So we love it when they come to the plant. We have an open door policy.

Jason Luedtke [00:21:05]:
Almost all of the early piloting there is accompanied by the brand representative, and, it’s really it’s the first one of those early steps in that relationship and trust component for sure.

Elisa Louis [00:21:19]:
That’s great. And from a brand’s perspective, let’s just say I’m working for a brand, Jason, and I’m trying to navigate choosing a co packer. What should I be looking for?

Jason Luedtke [00:21:33]:
That’s a big question.

Elisa Louis [00:21:34]:
I know it is. I know. But just, you know, tap

Jason Luedtke [00:21:38]:
tap tap

Elisa Louis [00:21:38]:
tap tap

Jason Luedtke [00:21:39]:
as you

Elisa Louis [00:21:39]:
can. Yeah.

Jason Luedtke [00:21:40]:
We have three hours. Okay. Well, so we’re gonna use most of that up for sure. But no. I mean, there has to be an operational fit. Right? There has to be the right product, the right equipment. You have to do the operational due diligence to make sure that the pairing is appropriate from, call it, the technical side or the tactical side. The bag has to fit my machine.

Jason Luedtke [00:22:10]:
The product has to go through my filler. And, frankly, it has to go through at a speed that makes it a healthy piece of business for both sides. So there’s this tactical element that can’t be ignored. Right? We have to do the right due diligence to make sure that the project succeeds. And and that’s honestly, at the onset of a new business development scenario, that’s really what I focus a lot of time on, and it does take time. It often takes months to do some of those things, and that’s not in all out of line with what it takes to do a a proper due diligence of a new project. But then at the end of the day and it’s usually through those communications that you’ve gotta feel good about the fact that you have a genuine partnership. We have to like one another.

Jason Luedtke [00:23:02]:
And we don’t have to be best friends. We don’t have to have sleepovers. But you that it’s that trust building factor. Right? I mean, after a few months or two months of exchanging communications and phone calls and validating all those operational pieces, you kinda get to know who you’re dealing with. And this is a hard industry. There’s a lot of stresses. There’s a lot of things that go wrong. It’s hard enough.

Jason Luedtke [00:23:25]:
We want to work with folks that we believe in, that we can get behind, and that we feel the same type of partnership back with them. And so it’s warm and fuzzy. It’s intangible. It’s hard to put a finger on, Alyssa, but you’ve got to find that genuine partnership in some of that early communication to know that it’s going to be a good fit. And, you know, maybe there’s not a exact litmus test beyond your gut, but it’s an important part of it because our intent with any new brand relationship is to work with them for years. We don’t do transactional work. We do partnership manufacturing. And so it solves those future problems so much easier when you’ve built that foundation of trust, a professional friendship, and you actually wanna see your brand succeed.

Jason Luedtke [00:24:16]:
You get behind them, and that makes you motivated to help them. And that’s all part of that trust building that that I would say is still the vital part of it.

Elisa Louis [00:24:26]:
So as a follow-up to that, as a new brand, let’s say I’m kind of I’m struggling a little bit to find the right partner that can start me out at the right minimum order quantity that I can bear, but works for the hophacker? I imagine that that question and that sort of challenge comes up quite a bit. I mean, what’s your take on that that question in terms of, well, you know, can you do a lower minimum order quantity

Jason Luedtke [00:24:56]:
for me? There’s always a few core questions on every first introduction call. You know, I mean, there’s some of the just the kind of the big questions that can’t be avoided. And the minimums question is absolutely one of the most important for both sides. Mhmm. It’s a tricky question. It’s one that takes a little tact to navigate. And the tricky part that I often try to talk to I mean, you kinda know who you’re talking to based around some of where they’re at in the market, where they’re at in their distribution. And so you have kind of a sense of where their volumes may or may not lie, you know, fairly early on, you know, maybe even before the first conversation.

Jason Luedtke [00:25:41]:
But our job as high volume co packers, co mans, is to allow you to say yes to your sales. It’s allowing you to scale up and go big, and that’s what the brands wanna do. Right? They wanna find their attraction, generate their sales, but I always think of it or and try to use the analogy of stepping stones. You have to make sure you’re not taking too big a step too soon. And this is a hard conversation that I’ve had many, many, many times, is maybe we’re not the best first step out of a commercial kitchen or whatever. Maybe we’re the third step, and sometimes I have to say that to brands. And it isn’t that I don’t support emerging brands. We love our emerging brands.

Jason Luedtke [00:26:33]:
I’m very proud of the emerging brands that have now become big brands. But there is just as much danger and risk to a young emerging brand to have too much inventory than not enough inventory. Too much inventory that isn’t pushing through the sales cycle fast enough is dead money for the brand. And it’s just as dangerous, if not more dangerous than not filling the orders that they have. And so there is a lot of delicacy in making good decisions on timing. When are you ready as a small brand versus a larger brand that already has nationwide distribution? It’s a diff slightly different conversation. For the emerging brands, you just need to know that we’re a big beast. And when you turn us on, you’re going to get a lot of product.

Jason Luedtke [00:27:26]:
And you’re gonna get it fast, and you’re gonna get it every month, and you’re gonna get exactly what you order from us. And you need to know that you’re gonna be able to keep it moving through your side, or I lose that value. I become a hindrance to your growth versus a benefit to your growth. And those are tricky conversations to navigate. And, you know, sometimes I say no because I just know from experience that it’s not the right time. And, and I don’t want to be that hindrance. I want to wait a year and let them get their traction and then have them come back and both sides be much more in a much more healthy position. You know,

Garrett McBride [00:28:04]:
it comes back to the transparency and communication also, though. You know, when we’re having these conversations as a customer interviewing a co man or a co man communicating about your capabilities, that minimum order quantity is so critical because it is based on a certain cost, a cost target. You know, the brands have to understand that if they want a reduced minimum order quantity, there is a cost associated with that. And then the conversation around building up to a tiered volume that will allow for lower cost over time really has to be outlined and understood by everybody because oftentimes there is a path, but it’s not as cost effective as as brands would like out of the gate. But you have to work forward and look at the big picture of your business and and have faith in in your scale plan.

Jason Luedtke [00:28:53]:
Yeah. I mean, I love you saying that, Garrett. I I mean, that that is part of the like I mentioned earlier, we all have to this is a a penny’s game in the food industry. We all have to be healthy to grow, and you’re exactly right. I mean, I call it runway. You know, sometimes small brands need a runway to get up there, and I come up with pretty creative solutions to get there. But you can’t necessarily have super high volume costing, but only run super low volume, you know, POs. And so it’s a balancing act for sure.

Jason Luedtke [00:29:27]:
It’s a balancing act for the brands. It’s a balancing act for the packer. And quite frankly, from the smirks and supplier side, I mean, you guys are dealing with minimums and, orders. And a lot of times, the other side of my conversation to the brands about minimums is, well, it’s one thing about how us, Zorroko, as a packer structures are minimums. But do you have any insight? Have you talked to your supplier about what can you buy? I mean, you might have to buy a certain amount of packaging of a particular raw ingredient that’s not in alignment with what our numbers are. And so this is where a little bit of that supplier and packer relationship comes in. And my insight knowing how you guys operate as suppliers really helps me guide brands on, hey. That’s just not gonna work.

Jason Luedtke [00:30:21]:
You can’t just buy one fifty pound bag of something. You have to think in terms of pallet minimums. You have to be prepared for some of those types of things because that’s all gonna funnel back to what my minimums are. And and a lot of times, I’ll work to try to pair my minimums so we can consume all the wrong as close to possible on a run of raw ingredients. And then that’s just, again, a a little bit of the balancing act of the brand side minimum, but also the co packer supplier relationship. And why we lean on our relationship with Smirk’s is to know how you guys operate because that really has a direct effect of my life too. I don’t know if I’ve kinda gone astray on our on the question there, but it does all all three sides of the, you know, legs of the table have to work together for for sure on that minimums question.

Elisa Louis [00:31:14]:
No. I love that that piece of it. I think that’s really helpful insights. And, Garrett, you touched on just how important having that in-depth conversation about the minimum order quantity is when you’re going to select co packer. In your role in the past with going out and looking for co packers, what were some of the other items on your checklist as far as must haves?

Garrett McBride [00:31:40]:
Yeah. The checklist was long and, kind of a moving target of of priority, but, you know, certainly, as Jason mentioned, the core competency, you have to have the right manufacturer that can do the right things so that everybody can be set up to succeed. Cost of course is one of the most important components. Location, quality is huge. Have to have faith in in, you know, a lot of confidence in in the quality systems, you know, in place with the contract manufacturers, minimum order quantities, lead times, scope of function. You know, a lot of times it’s who’s purchasing ingredients, who’s purchasing packaging, is this a turnkey endeavor or is this just strictly tolling with the brand bringing all the materials in for the manufacturing effort? And let’s not forget character. It makes life so much easier when you know you have reliable, trustworthy partners that are functionally taking responsibility for the most important part of your business. So there’s never just one list.

Garrett McBride [00:32:36]:
It’s a it’s a big mishmash of requirements.

Elisa Louis [00:32:40]:
I can imagine too, like, if I’m a brand that is marketing the fact that I’m free from certain allergens, that’s a whole nother issue too. Right?

Garrett McBride [00:32:52]:
Exactly. But the specifics around what you’re trying to achieve from a a product value proposition standpoint has to be taken into account because there are manufacturers that won’t deal with certain allergens or will only deal with certain allergens or have various constraints. And, you know, it’s again, communication and transparency. We need to understand what the brand is looking for, what the contract manufacturer can deliver against, and make sure that everybody’s aligned in moving forward or not, you know, hit those targets.

Elisa Louis [00:33:20]:
Jason, to that point, how does Xeroqua navigate the whole allergen question and scenario?

Jason Luedtke [00:33:27]:
So we’re a fairly unique animal in the sense that we have three different brick and mortar facilities, so three independent standalone production plants, and each one has different allergen parameters around them. So we’re pretty darn unique in the sense that we do offer big nine allergen free. So that’s a dedicated facility that allows none of the big nine allergens. And it has unique, you know, that’s our baking facility. So we bake cookies and granola, grams, and a variety of other, products. We do tons of other things in that thing, but there is zero, never have, never been any of the big nine allergens. Second plant, and the thing is in our little, quiver of of plants, is gluten free. That’s a dedicated GFCO gluten free and peanut free.

Jason Luedtke [00:34:27]:
But I do allow what I’ll call allergen friendly. So I do allow the other, the soy, dairies, tree nuts, coconut, none of the shellfishes or the protein based ones, but the other non gluten, non peanut allergens are welcome at that facility. So that’s where I do a ton of oatmeals, a lot of baking mixes, those types of things there. And then we have a temperature controlled facility that its restriction is only peanuts. So I can allow gluten at that facility, but, there is no peanuts allowed at any of the three of our facilities. And so one of those early vetting conversations, you know, Garrett just touched on all the different important checklists of things, is beyond the size of unit and the shape of the unit, the texture of the product, and what filler is going to be done with it, and does it fit the cartoner. It’s also what is your allergen parameters. And that’s maybe the first question I often ask because before I even go down the line, if I have peanuts in it, I’m sorry, but it’s just not gonna work.

Jason Luedtke [00:35:35]:
And so the those are just part of that really introductory level vetting process of deciding which direction to take a project. Can the project go even at all? But allergens and the paperwork around allergens, those if a brand is making an allergenic claim, whether it’s just gluten free or if it’s big nine free, there has to be all the documentation to back it up. You can’t just say it. You have to live it. And so that’s a whole different level of quality beyond the call it standard workmanship type quality that comes into play when you’re running an allergen specific plan.

Garrett McBride [00:36:14]:
Yeah. In this day and age, that allergen control is is just so important. It’s such a a hot button topic. There are a lot of people that did that that impacts. Having a a contract manufacturer that can effectively manage that is a a gigantic plus in the in the positive column.

Elisa Louis [00:36:30]:
Such a range and variety of different capabilities within your three plants, Jason. So that’s it certainly gives customers a lot of options, and it helps to just,

Jason Luedtke [00:36:41]:
like Don’t tell anyone, but we’re not very good at saying no to things. This is I I think what that means, to be honest with you.

Elisa Louis [00:36:50]:
I can twist your arm.

Jason Luedtke [00:36:53]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Garrett McBride [00:36:54]:
There’s always a conversation.

Elisa Louis [00:36:55]:
Peanuts. Forget about it. Right?

Jason Luedtke [00:36:57]:
Yeah. There’s there’s peanuts. I mean, that’s one of the benefits, you know, and we’re a little off topic here, but we’re a privately held company. Our owner is very entrepreneurial. If we feel good about the people and the partnership and the product and we see growth, we’re very not afraid to say yes to things we’ve never done before. We believe we have the operational skill set to, you know, manufacturers manufacturing to a degree. And if you’re good at doing one thing, you can take those same principles and apply it to other product types, maybe other pieces of equipment, and still get utilize the same principles. And so we’re pretty diverse on purpose because we don’t want all of our eggs in one basket for one, from a a personal side of our business strategy.

Jason Luedtke [00:37:42]:
But, secondarily, if it makes sense, if it’s economically viable, if it pencils out for both parties, we’re willing to look at things that we’ve never done before, and we’re willing to push the limits and challenge ourselves to try new products. And, you know, we do lots of, quite a few different wild crazy things for sure. So but keeps it fun, keeps it stressful, but, you know, it it also allows us to keep a pretty wide view of what can and can’t be done for the food industry. It allows us to stay on trend a little bit. As the trends in food change, we can pivot with them, and we aren’t just locked into one mindset that we only do this and we only do that and we won’t do anything else. And I think that’s really served us well, why we have a wide range of really high profile brands across the industry. So we’re pretty proud of that, to be honest with

Elisa Louis [00:38:35]:
you. Awesome. Well, I definitely wanna ask you about trends in a little bit, but, you know, I wanna bring up the fact that I mean, it sounds like the business is really nimble, and I think that’s great because like you said, the natural and organic food industry is just growing so rapidly and it does go in different directions all the time. Every, every year we go to Expo West, we see something new. Right?

Jason Luedtke [00:39:00]:
Yeah. If Expo West is your bellwether of what the industry is like, and you’ve been to Expo West, you know exactly what the industry is like.

Elisa Louis [00:39:08]:
Yes. %. But let’s just shift gears a little bit. I mean, if I’m coming to you guys and saying, look. I’m a brand. I’ve been struggling with my current co packer. It’s just not working. What’s your advice for me, Garrett? Let’s start with you.

Garrett McBride [00:39:28]:
Yeah. I think for for brands that are struggling with their contract manufacturer relationship, we keep touching on these recurring themes here with communication, critical transparency. If there are miscommunications, if there are delays, you know, addressing the issues early and directly is is a key piece. It’s also important to understand your co man’s constraints or what their pain points are and to be able to work with them and be open to having that dialogue to collaboratively identify and execute the solutions that ultimately will allow you to fix the problems or move through the challenges. Managing the collective expectations in the form of, you know, a contract

Jason Luedtke [00:40:08]:
or a written agreement

Garrett McBride [00:40:09]:
upfront helps everybody involved. So, agreement upfront helps everybody involved so that all parties can clearly understand how the relationship is intended to function and what the consequences will be if the balls get dropped by either side. The agreements are something that get overlooked by a lot of people, but in the event that you have challenges, you can always go back to the agreement as the guiding document that says we agreed to x, y, and z. If x, y, and z aren’t met, we understand that there’s a consequence here, whether financial or timing or what have you, but it’s outlined and agreed to upfront and and no surprises later on down the road if challenges arise. The, you know, the other critical thing, and and nobody ever wants to hear this, but you gotta know when to throw in the towel. If you as a brand owner continue to beat your head against the wall and keep getting nowhere, you gotta cut your losses and move on sometimes. There are so many great partner minded contract manufacturers out there. It’s worth taking the time to understand what that competitive landscape looks like and to take that time to make sure that your co man is truly a good fit and a proper partner.

Elisa Louis [00:41:19]:
You know, to follow-up on just some of those thoughts to something that popped into my head as you were speaking is also geographic location, right? We can have whether it’s a lovely partnership with a co packer, but maybe they’re way across the country from where we need our products to be or to be distributed through. So, I mean, what do you suggest on that on that front? If I’ve got a great co packer partner, but they’re only covering part of my market or they’re not covering my needs very well geographically because my freight costs just keep going up.

Garrett McBride [00:41:59]:
Yeah. I mean, it’s important to line up your distribution network with your contract manufacturing network in in a way that makes sense. I guess we’re fortunate, you know, the world we live in right now is such a small place. Transit times are are shorter than they’ve ever been. Costs are up and down. But it is certainly important to make sure that you’ve taken into account the physical locations of your distribution network relative to those of your your manufacturers and and make sure that it makes financial and logistical sense.

Elisa Louis [00:42:29]:
Jason, I know you’ve had the scenario a million times. Yeah. Give us your thoughts.

Jason Luedtke [00:42:34]:
Yeah. About a million times. I mean, in those early vetting questions, I mean, I’ve for sure learned that that’s one of my vetting questions. And sometimes I know when to throw in the towel before we even get going. If you’re heavily distributed in in New England, I’m probably not your best choice. And let’s not go down a path that we’re gonna create a disaster six months from now or a year from now or whatever. And so I’ve gotten pretty savvy in learning, hey, where does your product come in from and where does it gonna go back out to? Because I even if you don’t know to ans ask that question, I I know to ask that question. And so that’s an important factor.

Jason Luedtke [00:43:17]:
I mean, the products have to move around the country. The the way our American food industry is set up is there’s transportation involved pretty much at every step of the way. And so that’s a a factor that just can’t be ignored. No doubt about that. I mean, good, bad, or otherwise, it’s just an important consideration. And and, frankly, it’s better to talk about it. Like Garrett mentioned earlier, all these things are better to talk about upfront and be open and and completely transparent about some of my best projects have been lost in the final hour because nobody did a freight study until we were about ready to sign on a dotted line, and the whole thing blew up. And that was months of work down the drain, and and I’d rather talk about freight up front and not have that rug pulled out from under me down the line.

Jason Luedtke [00:44:08]:
Now can I always solve it? Definitely can’t move my plants around every single day of the year just to fit a a distribution model, but it’s an important factor that needs to be discussed. No doubt.

Garrett McBride [00:44:22]:
We might as well throw in a shameless plug for for Smirks here. You know, on the supply side, when you’re talking about geographic location, we have warehouses on both the East Coast, the West Coast, and in Colorado. So when it comes to supplying ingredients to a co man, really, in any location around the country, we have an option somewhere nearby, reasonably speaking.

Jason Luedtke [00:44:45]:
Yeah. I’m glad you brought that up because the reason we call Smirk’s is our usual first supplier option on any product is because we know where your warehouses are, and we know that we can access them. And and that’s something that we think about from our side of things all the time. I mean and so that’s part of the the bond that we have with Smirk’s from a co pack standpoint is that element of proximity and access to both coasts and all those kind of things. So that’s for sure important from a co packer to supplier side as well.

Garrett McBride [00:45:22]:
It just keeps things flexible and agile. Keeps business moving forward.

Elisa Louis [00:45:27]:
Absolutely. So besides the whole geographic issue or challenge, what are the other reasons that people come to you having already worked with one co packer and they’re struggling and looking to you to potentially be their new co packer?

Jason Luedtke [00:45:43]:
Yeah. Garrett, he’s super savvy. He always has been. That’s why we’ve become friends over the years. But he hit the nail on the head. I mean, he used the term pain points, and, honestly, that’s a term that we use internally in almost every discussion we have. It is stressful. It is time consuming, even costly to move co packers.

Jason Luedtke [00:46:06]:
Nobody does it just for fun. I mean, that’s the bottom line. So if you’re are a brand that’s out there, you do have sales, you do have traction, and you’re needing to grow and scale, you’re not going to leave something that’s working. It wouldn’t make any sense. So there has to be a particular pain. It’s a pain of fulfillment. Your orders are either being pushed out or incomplete. You’re having quality issues.

Jason Luedtke [00:46:35]:
Those are the things that really are the main drivers of making the very difficult decision to move manufacturing. It’s not taken lightly. And those are the the very first questions I also ask at that vetting stage. What do you need to solve here? And if we don’t all know what the problem is, then, a, I don’t know how to solve it. I don’t know how to think about what is important to you as the brand. And so we’ve gotta just kinda pull the Band Aid and ask the hard questions and really figure out what those pain points are, make sure that Jirocco’s appropriately set up to solve them. And maybe I am, and usually I am, frankly, but maybe I’m not. And I’d rather know that right out of the gate.

Jason Luedtke [00:47:28]:
And that just kinda comes back to the common theme that we’ve touched on multiple times is trust, transparency, integrity, and just I don’t wanna set myself up to fail. Being super selfish, why would I wanna go because it’s a lot of work for us as well. I don’t wanna set either side up for disappointment if I can’t solve the pain point that we know is already occurring. And it would just be silly for both sides if if I did that. So

Garrett McBride [00:47:57]:
Gotta be mutually beneficial, or it’s not gonna work long term.

Jason Luedtke [00:48:01]:
Yeah. I mean, it’s gotta be a win win. This whole industry has to live off win wins.

Garrett McBride [00:48:07]:
The nature of partnership.

Elisa Louis [00:48:09]:
Makes a lot of sense for sure. We’ve talked about it sprinkling it throughout this conversation. But from your perspective, Jason, as far as the partnership that ZoRoCo and Smirk’s shares, what do you think really makes that collaboration successful between the supplier of the ingredients and the co packer?

Jason Luedtke [00:48:32]:
Yeah. I mean, it’s really kind of the same thing just applied in a different direction. I mean, the reason we work and really pick up the phone and we call Smirk’s first is the same reason. You know, you’re a customer to us and we’re a customer to you. We’re doing business together back and forth all the time. And so the brand is our ultimate customer, but we have to have that trust factor together. I need to know that my supplier is gonna deliver at the time that they say they’re gonna deliver, that their inventory’s tight, that they’re not gonna send me old product, that they’re gonna have all their paperwork in order. And that’s an important part of what I need so I can serve the brand on the other end.

Jason Luedtke [00:49:15]:
We can both serve the brand. You want them to believe in you. We want them to believe in us. And so if you, the supplier, and the co man isn’t working well together, if we don’t trust each other’s quality, we both risk looking bad. You know? And so it’s gotta be that same kind of partnership orientation. Now the benefit that we have as supplier co packer is between your subject matter expertise, my subject matter expertise, Garrett and I can get on the phone. We can talk about a project. He can talk about it from the ingredients side because of our history, because of that trust.

Jason Luedtke [00:49:56]:
He knows what equipment I have. He knows how that it works. He knows what granulation of sugar is better for a particular type of application than a different type. I know from my side, your organic certificates are gonna be perfectly dialed in, that we’re not gonna have a paperwork issue. That if you say you’ve got product in a warehouse, you’ve you’ve got product in a warehouse, and it’s gonna get to me on time. And so through that trust and that mutual effort together, we both can shine in the eyes of the brands. We both can grow our businesses. And and it just, the trust factor with our suppliers is equal to the trust back and forth with brands.

Elisa Louis [00:50:40]:
Anything to add to that, Garrett, or from our perspective as the the ingredient supplier?

Garrett McBride [00:50:45]:
Yeah. Again, Jason nailed it. The the dynamic between Smurfs and ZoRoCo was very similar to that of the brand come in partnership dynamic. Again, it comes back to trust, communication, transparency. It’s just as important on the supply side

Jason Luedtke [00:51:01]:
as

Garrett McBride [00:51:01]:
it is on the manufacturing and sales side. With everybody, you know, the supplier, the contract manufacturer, the brand, working together seamlessly, the results speak for themselves and everybody succeeds. And that’s the goal in this. I mean, everybody Right. The collective success, you know, rising tide floats all boats sort of thing. It’s also extremely helpful that Smirk’s in particular has direct relationships with a lot of the brands that work with ZoRoCo and work with a lot of the contract manufacturers that we supply. And we’re able to execute more effectively because we understand the needs of those brands outside of just the manufacturing relationship. You know? So to have the the more complete picture, the bigger picture of their business in mind as we’re having conversations with Jason and Zorroko, as they’re having conversations with their brands, we’re all aligned.

Garrett McBride [00:51:48]:
We’re all ready to go into battle together and and just generally kick ass.

Jason Luedtke [00:51:52]:
Yeah. I trust the whole team at Smurk’s, and I know all of you guys, but Garrett and I have been working together for a super long time. I’ll ask him how to help me solve a problem. You know, if I’m struggling with something, something’s just not processing right, I know I can pick up the phone and say, hey. This is what’s happening. What do you think about this? Like, why is this not working out? And these kind of conversations happen a lot of times without the brand ever knowing it. And maybe what we can do is recommend a different granulation or a different source supply or something that does make it, you know, and I’m just making up examples, but a product flow a little bit easier or be a little less sticky or and so relying on the subject matter expertise of our supplier is important too. You know? I mean, I know that Garrett’s traveled the world and goes and personally vets a lot of the growing sides of the business and things like that.

Jason Luedtke [00:52:52]:
And so I know it’s solid start to finish. Our quality department knows it’s solid start to finish because I know the guy that went to Southeast Asia and actually looked at where the coconuts were grown and things like that. Right. And so that it prevents a lot of sleepless nights when you know who your partner is on the supply side too.

Elisa Louis [00:53:13]:
Yeah. And one of the interesting things I’ve Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You got enough.

Garrett McBride [00:53:18]:
Across the board.

Elisa Louis [00:53:19]:
One thing I’ve noticed is that the more customers that we share, Jason, in terms of smirks and and ZoRoCo, the the more efficiencies we have too, because we end up building full trucks going to your facilities, which saves our customers time and money. So Sure. We can just pass on that savings to them and you get the ingredients that much quicker.

Jason Luedtke [00:53:47]:
Sure.

Elisa Louis [00:53:48]:
So from my perspective, that’s been one of the nice bonuses of having kind of these multiple shared clients.

Jason Luedtke [00:53:57]:
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It’s good to keep it in family. I mean, let you know, honestly, there’s efficiency all the way around. I mean, if you’re detecting themes through what Garrett and I are saying, I think you could find a few common threads that are pretty paramount in every different direction within our industry. And I think that that’s, you start to see that efficiency and it it becomes real dollars and cents if you look at the bigger picture of how you can shave time and energy and and cost on different things by having that kind of collective mindset for sure.

Elisa Louis [00:54:36]:
So speaking of these partnerships, Garrett, I know you and Jason go back a long ways, well before the beard, collaborating together. And so from your thoughts, could you share insights into your working relationship you’ve had with Jason and ZoRoCoand what it was like?

Garrett McBride [00:54:55]:
Yeah. You know, I, you’re right. We go way back. And and when it all started, when it was all the dating period, trying to feel each other out and and see if this was a path we wanted to go down, you know, as a a brand manufacturer partnership, I was very skeptical. We had some very specific and complicated requirements as a brand, you know, with regard to the products and the value propositions. And, you know, Jason was so honest and straightforward about their business and about the way that they conducted themselves that I really almost didn’t believe it. I made him work pretty hard. I mean, I can’t count how many times I was out there prior to actually getting into the partnership, but he had to jump through some hoops.

Garrett McBride [00:55:37]:
And, you know, at the end of the day, it was all about Jason and Zirocco saying what they were going to do and then doing what they said, and that’s exactly what they did. And it was, and and still is with the the previous brand that I used to represent, a very fruitful partnership, and and it’s been a great relationship since day one.

Jason Luedtke [00:55:59]:
Yeah. Well, thank you for saying that. I appreciate that. Garrett’s a pro. Garrett, he was a ball buster. There’s no doubt about it. I mean but the thing about working with strong professionals is they make us better too. I know speaking on behalf of our brand, but the owner personally, he expects us to be high integrity people.

Jason Luedtke [00:56:23]:
That’s the culture he’s built. That’s what we all try to live. And the words that Garrett just said, I think, would make him very, very happy and very proud to know that we actually live the culture we preach. And, you know, that’s what we’re gonna continue to do. But, when you’re challenged by a strong professional like Garrett, the first day he showed up and you know a pro when he brings his own flashlights, ultraviolet flashlights, and he knows to where to look and the things to look for. And you’re like, alright. We’re gonna be in for this one, you know? But at the end of the day, we live in that ready state, and we made it work. And those hoops that he makes us and other customers as well, we work with some big mega national companies on our frozen division, and they’ve challenged us.

Jason Luedtke [00:57:10]:
They’ve made us stronger. And we are who we are today because we have strong partnerships, and we have been challenged. And we’ve just learned and continue to build the blocks of high quality, and it’s because we get pushed. And that there’s nothing wrong with that. We welcome that a little bit. So

Garrett McBride [00:57:27]:
Yeah. That’s what makes this life and business fun is the relationships and, you know, not just the business, the personal pieces. You know, if you don’t enjoy what you’re doing, it’s not worth waking up every day and and and moving forward with it. But, having the relationships with, you know, especially a smaller family run manufacturer like ZoRoCo is is just it’s rewarding and fun. Thrilled to death that I continue I get to continue participating in that partnership from the supply side. So this has kind of been a a cool full circle thing for me personally.

Jason Luedtke [00:57:59]:
Yeah. For sure. I mean, Garrett and I kinda started together in the early days, and we’re still working together. And that’s, like I said earlier, I rely on him all the time. Sometimes it’s a ZoRoCosmirks thing. Sometimes it’s just I don’t quite understand. That’s something I read. Hey.

Jason Luedtke [00:58:15]:
What do you know about this? You know? What do you know about this new statement about, whatever, an allergen? What what have you heard? And so, you know, we’re sharing insight back and forth and really appreciate and rely on that from a friendship standpoint, but the professional side as well. So

Garrett McBride [00:58:32]:
yeah, it’s a lot of fun, man. It’s been great.

Elisa Louis [00:58:35]:
So, you know, Garrett, you don’t get off the hook without actually giving me an, a real example, a real life example of something you and Jason collaborated on, some kind of project. So do tell. I will let you reminisce a little bit.

Jason Luedtke [00:58:54]:
You pick, buddy. I don’t care. Yeah.

Garrett McBride [00:58:56]:
Oh, man. We’ve had so many different projects and so many wild experiences. You know, the one that sticks out in my head the most, and then this is I wish I’d get into the details and the specifics, can’t do that, but at at a high level, I’ll never forget this, and and I’m sure Jason won’t either, and that team there because it was a stressful and wild commercialization. But we had a, a cup project a number of years back that we just knocked out of the park on about a five month zero fail timeline, meaning that we had distributor deadlines that we had to meet. We had retailer deadlines. This was this was a zero fail mission, and we had no time in which to do this. You know, ZoRoCowas the keystone in a project that involved work performed by three unrelated commands. One of them had to be set up from start to finish in the middle of this timeline.

Garrett McBride [00:59:48]:
ZoRoCo was responsible for helping us source, approve, procure dozens of new ingredients, packaging components.

Jason Luedtke [00:59:57]:
We had

Garrett McBride [00:59:57]:
to work through the formulation, the line trials, the actual production, and the distribution, again, in about a five month time period. And we executed flawlessly in just a couple of months. This would have taken, even the most heavily resourced company two years. I mean, if you’ve been in this world, the development timelines are long. Two years or more to complete, and we just nailed it on this, on the shortest of timelines with really everything stacked against us, being walking arms moving forward. And the reality of the situation is that most other co mans probably would have told me to pound salt because of the timeline and the complexity and just the overall probability of failure being so high. You know, ZoRoCohad enough faith in us to green light the effort, and we won. That’s it’s always great to get through a stressful, crazy, low probability of success event and win.

Garrett McBride [01:00:54]:
You learn a lot about people’s character when the stakes are high and when the pressure’s on. And, you know, I was beyond impressed with Jason and his team and and what they brought to the table. And and, you you know, they made me look good. Our brand looked good. You know, we were able to deliver as expected with our distributors and our retailers. And and again, that agility and that flexibility was key to this whole effort, and we nailed it. But that was one of a a dozen different wild projects that we brought to the table with no time and and very little resource that that it just came together and and executed perfectly.

Jason Luedtke [01:01:33]:
Yeah. I I’m pretty confident I know exactly what you’re talking about. And, you know, we do have to protect, you know, details, but it involved color. It involved a lot of test blending to get to the right colorations, and Garrett and I literally himself he and I blended for multiple hours straight, testing different ratios of colorations. And we both came out of that blend and ended up probably with cocktails later, and the face is the color of his shirt right now. And so I think we were both fairly Smurfed out for at least a couple of days after the fact, if, memory serves me so.

Garrett McBride [01:02:19]:
Absolutely right. That was an experience.

Elisa Louis [01:02:21]:
That’s awesome.

Garrett McBride [01:02:22]:
You know, it spoke to the character and the competency of of your team and the ability for all of us to pull together, line expectations, have faith in one another, and just execute. That’s what makes it all worth it. Because at the end of it, you’re feeling unbelievable. It’s amazing. It’s a great feeling.

Elisa Louis [01:02:41]:
Great story. You know, it’s like the two of you were in a war together.

Jason Luedtke [01:02:44]:
What it

Garrett McBride [01:02:45]:
feels like sometimes. I mean, anybody who’s been in development and CPG knows that there’s never enough time. There’s never enough resources. But when you win, boys would feel good.

Jason Luedtke [01:02:54]:
Yeah. There’s, definitely a little celebratory clinking of the glasses after a tough day of that, and you you’d know you’d got across the finish line. And and, you know, that’s that, band of brothers, sisters mentality that is why we’re still in contact, we’re still friends today, is because we did kind of go to battle in that metaphorical sense a few times. And, you know, it certainly is applicable to Garrett. It’s applicable to quite a few other people in the industry for me personally, and that is why those long relationships are forged. And it’s because you’ve you’ve had the good times, you’ve had a few bad times, you’ve overcome them. And then, you know, you have that that level of, I guess you’d call it, friendship, professional friendship. But you can also go relax together and have fun and have a laugh and and have that level of comfort after a tough day to do stuff as human beings and to to just relax and and be friends and and kinda laugh off all the things you just got done fighting through, and you’re just stronger because of it.

Jason Luedtke [01:03:59]:
I mean, that that it’s just that time behind the wheel with interpersonal relationships that just get stronger and stronger the more you do together. So

Elisa Louis [01:04:08]:
That’s great. I mean, that that’s definitely one of those great success stories. I I know we’ve all had our share of challenging situations too. I mean, you touched on it, Jason. I mean, the the tough times. And with all the supply chain issues that are out there in the world, we have our fair share. And and I think that we share that desire to communicate to our customer and our co packing partner or who you know, immediately when something’s not going well. Like, when there’s a delay in a container getting to the port, you’ve gotta be the first one to know as well as the brand.

Elisa Louis [01:04:50]:
They have to know so that you can adjust your schedules. Cause I know those schedules are critical to everybody meeting their goals down the line and ultimately getting that product on that grocery store shelf. So we’ve been through those times too. Right, Jason?

Jason Luedtke [01:05:07]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that that’s I mean, it’s, you know well, again, full circle over and over and over again. But if there’s that integrity there, if you’re not trying to hide the fact that there’s a problem, if you’re picking up the phone right away and communicating, usually you can solve a problem. If I know there’s a delay, I can start talking to my scheduler, and we can start moving things around, and we can start swapping, you know, maybe we run a different SKU. But if you don’t know how to solve the problem if you don’t know the problem exists. And so and that goes every direction in the three way conversation between supplier brand and Coman is, if you’re talking, you’re solving. If you’re not talking, you don’t know what is gonna fail, and then it’s already too late.

Jason Luedtke [01:05:52]:
And so it’s really just that repetitive component of trust and communication.

Garrett McBride [01:05:59]:
That’s so important.

Elisa Louis [01:06:00]:
Awesome. Well, switching gears a little bit, you touched on it earlier, Jason.

Jason Luedtke [01:06:06]:
Yep.

Elisa Louis [01:06:07]:
And I would really love to dive into a little bit more the trends that you’re seeing because ZoRoCobeing kind of very much an integral role in the the whole supply chain. I know you’re monitoring the trends, and I know you’ve done some research. So I’m really interested to hear what you think are some of the hot trends right now in the natural food industry.

Jason Luedtke [01:06:33]:
Yeah. I mean, lately, I would say the big one is protein, protein, protein. Everyone is seeking creative new proteins, non typical proteins to offer an enhancement of that protein level without either sacrificing taste or even maybe enhancing taste. So from a general theme, I would definitely say protein is, really a hot button topic. I think we’ll see a lot of it at expo coming up. And I think the other things is a trend not as much product driven as there’s without a doubt a continuation of traceability within the supply chain. The brands, all the way down to the consumer, they like knowing where their products are coming from. They like to know that it’s clean.

Jason Luedtke [01:07:24]:
They like to know that the folks behind the brand, meaning the suppliers, meaning the commands, they know where the farm source is. And so that’s where I think a lot of the buzzword of regenerative is coming from is it’s that traceability back to the growers. The personal story behind the growers, I think, is, continuing to be a pretty important trend to the industry. And yet you see that a lot in the brand marketing and those conversations about really understanding kind of field of refrigerator type of traceability in the industry. And so besides protein, I would say that that’s a a continuing theme that I see out there for sure. Yeah. I think in addition to the plant based protein, especially, it

Garrett McBride [01:08:13]:
really doesn’t seem like it’s going anywhere. Every trade show, every new product launch seems to solidify the plant based proteins position on the grocery shelves. Clean labels, of course, everybody wants their labels cleaner, simpler. Origin specificity, you know, there are a lot of people now that are requesting product x must come from either a very specific group of countries or origins or can’t come from a very specific origin. It’s becoming more and more common. And I think just generally having the right certifications from a food safety standpoint, all the organic, the kosher, now the regenerative to Jason’s point are really focused upon more than they ever have been in, you know, my twenty some years in, in CPG.

Elisa Louis [01:09:05]:
Yep. I fully expect we’re gonna see a lot more at expo west products and companies featuring all these attributes. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a lot more emphasis on protein. I have somewhat of a curiosity of how that might be tied to the new craze in the Ozempic. That’s going to be interesting. I’m no expert on it, but I’ve heard that the folks that are on or taking Ozempic tend to want to crave more protein, which is just a, an interesting side note.

Jason Luedtke [01:09:39]:
That is an interesting side note.

Elisa Louis [01:09:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but you know, of course we’ve seen protein protein over and over again at expo and I just expect to see more and then everybody desiring more understanding about where their ingredients come from, for sure. So, and

Garrett McBride [01:09:58]:
I think we’re

Elisa Louis [01:09:59]:
gonna see stuff.

Garrett McBride [01:10:00]:
Yeah. I think we’re gonna see people really focusing on the colors as well. Now that the, the US FDA has, has taken a stance, especially on, on the red, We’re gonna see more and more focus on finding, I think proactively, preemptively finding alternatives to the, you know, the artificial and the late colors that some people still use in their formulations.

Elisa Louis [01:10:23]:
Alright. Well, good stuff. It it’s fun to kinda chat about what we’re seeing out there. I know we could we could really do this all day long. It it’s just fun talking amongst friends. And from Smirk’s perspective, I mean, this is the sort of thing we really value. The partnerships that we have with our co packers and co manufacturers like ZoRoCo are very, very important to us. We see ourselves integral in helping that whole chain so that in the end, the brand can get that product on the shelf when it needs to be there with good quality ingredients inside.

Elisa Louis [01:11:05]:
So Jason and Garrett, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your insights. For our listeners who are interested in learning more about Zorroco, of course, you can go visit zorocopackaging.com. You’ll find lots of resources there and including a way to connect with our friend, Jason.

Jason Luedtke [01:11:23]:
That’s right.

Elisa Louis [01:11:26]:
And as always, I thank you, you know, our audience for tuning in to the get the scoop with Smirk’s podcast. And if you wanna connect with Smirk’s, you can reach out to us at what’s new at smirks dot com or through our website, smirks.com, of course. But keep on listening here because Garrett is going to, in the next segment, give us an update on the latest market report on a variety of ingredients. So you’re not gonna wanna miss that. And if you’ve enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe. Leave us a review. We would love that. Share it with your network.

Elisa Louis [01:12:00]:
And until next time, keep scooping success.

Garrett McBride [01:12:06]:
Hello and welcome to the Get the Scoop with Smirk’s Podcast Market Report for January and February 2025. Let’s jump right in. Let’s Let’s talk about macadamias. The market has rebounded to higher pricing compared to a few months ago and considerably higher than it was a year ago. Kenya has an export ban in place for in shell macadamia nuts to help to stabilize the market and to allow the nuts to develop fully on the trees. If they remove the export ban and China comes back in to purchase the in shell, it will add volatility to the market. If the export ban remains in place, it will help to stabilize the market. The market needs to learn how the consumption was in China from the Chinese New Year which just concluded.

Garrett McBride [01:12:49]:
If they consumed a lot, they may reenter the market and add pressure to the price. If consumption was not large, then we may see the market soften. Time will tell on this. It’s still early. Smirks does have positions on style one, style four, style five, and style six s if you are in need of inventory. Walnuts. The current walnut crop ended up very short of the anticipated yield this year, and pricing has spiked as a result. Yeah.

Garrett McBride [01:13:16]:
In some cases, 45 to 50¢ higher per pound. We still have some organic light medium pieces available. Call us to discuss your needs. Almonds. California’s Central Valley saw ideal conditions for almond growing last year. There was speculation of a 3,100,000,000 pound crop. But in reality, the yield ended up somewhere between two point seven and two point eight billion pounds Even with those perfect conditions, what was estimated was unable to come to fruition due to farmer economics. Farmers cut back on fertilizer inputs due to high costs so they weren’t able to reach that 3,100,000,000 pound crop that was initially projected.

Garrett McBride [01:14:00]:
This shortcoming shocks the almond market and we saw spikes in prices early. Markets are expected to remain flat, however, with some potential downside as we look toward the next crop. Conventional almonds are available and markets are currently flat. Over the last three years, markets have been steadily increasing but in fact getting more toward normal levels. Almond pricing was not sustainable for packers and farmers in past years and they’re now getting to the point where they will be sustainable. Cashews. Conventional cashews. There was strong production in the beginning of the harvest but the crop in West Africa was short in 2024.

Garrett McBride [01:14:40]:
We need a few more weeks to have a more clear picture of what the new crop will look like and to gauge how demand will be. Some growing regions are coming online to offset shortages but it’s not quite enough to make up the difference quickly. Falling ocean freight prices should help but overall, prices are likely to remain firm. Pecans or pecans depending on where you’re from. Pecan crop is down due to damage caused by Hurricane Helene. The conventional crop is estimated to have been reduced by 30,000,000 pounds to 36,000,000 pounds as a result of that storm. We expect prices to stay firm. We’re encouraging people to book now and early and get as much coverage as possible.

Garrett McBride [01:15:23]:
Organic pecans are also very tight. Very little on the market right now so plan accordingly. Coconut sugar. The coconut sugar shortage in Indonesia is exacerbated by long waits to get organic transaction certificates issued. This process is very slow as reported by multiple suppliers and has been the primary cause of delays getting shipments on the water out of Indonesia. Loads that were supposed to ship in November through January have still not hit the water and we’re waiting for that to happen. It is worth highlighting that Smerxs is off the market for spot sales until April with the exception of business already contracted, of course. We expect some product to begin shipping February but again that volume is allocated to current contracts and not spot demand.

Garrett McBride [01:16:12]:
Sunflower. We continue to see the markets get tighter on inventory in The EU. In particular, we are seeing suppliers sold out of organic kernels already. We expect organic to remain very tight from The EU. We have found some relief with supply from The US on organic and the pricing is not far off for that of the EU. You may consider looking for coverage from The USA as a good option until this market rights itself. King law. The supply of raw material is getting very bad in Peru and Bolivia with organic white running extremely low.

Garrett McBride [01:16:46]:
Prices continue to increase and new crop is expected to hit the market a little bit later than normal. There will be no carryover so we anticipate a run on the market at harvest time, April or May, which will keep pricing firm going into new crop. From what we’re hearing, we think new crop may not start shipping until June this year so please plan accordingly. If product ships in June, we will not see it arrive to The States until July or early August. Coconuts. Desiccated coconut markets remain firm as growing regions slowly recover from the lingering impacts of El Nino and La Nina weather patterns. Global demand remains high and raw material supplies remain low with a slow recovery horizon. This leads us to speculate that costs will likely remain high for all coconut products through the first half of twenty twenty five.

Garrett McBride [01:17:38]:
There are even rumors that many manufacturers in Indonesia and Vietnam are either completely closed or running at a very small fraction of their optimal capacities. Not good for the folks in those regions. Coconut oil and coconut flour are slightly less impacted as the raw material supply chains are a bit more flexible. Contact us to discuss your 2025 demand, and let’s put together a strategy to get your needs covered. Thanks for listening. We’ll talk to you next month. So that’s it for this episode of Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast, where we bring you the latest market reports, insights into bulk ingredients and their origins, as well as in-depth product information. So if you have any questions, feedback, or just want a sample to taste for yourself, visit the smirks.com website or email us at what’s new at smirks dot com.

Garrett McBride [01:18:31]:
Never miss a future episode. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in.

The post Transcript: Packed for Success – Secrets to an Exceptional Co-Packer Partnership appeared first on Bulk Ingredient Network.

Elisa Louis [00:00:49]:
Hello, and welcome to get the scoop with Smirk’s. This is episode 15, and we’re diving into a topic essential to Smirk’s mission and our partnerships, quality assurance. At Smirk’s, as a leading supplier of conventional and organic ingredients, our mission goes beyond transactions. We’re all about building trusted partnerships and delivering quality ingredient solutions. Our quality assurance or QA team is a huge part of that. They ensure that we consistently uphold high standards in quality and food safety so that our customers can feel assured that we will meet or exceed their needs. Today, I’m excited to welcome 2 people who play a key role in our QA processes. We have Tara Hettinger, our QA director, and Garrett McBride who oversees operations at Smirk’s.

Elisa Louis [00:01:36]:
They’ll help us understand what goes on behind the scenes in QA. Hello, Tara. Hello, Garrett. Welcome to the podcast. Hey, Alisa. Hey there. Alright. Well, let’s get rolling.

Elisa Louis [00:01:48]:
Tara, let’s start with you. What are some of the main goals of the QA team, and how do you make sure they align with Smirk’s broader mission and vision?

Tara Hettinger [00:01:58]:
Our goal in the QA department is to provide partnerships with not only our customers, but our suppliers as well, Alisa. Smirk’s has a very rigorous vetting process and assesses potential risks not only for us, but our customers that are purchasing products from us. We require and analyze between 30 40 quality and food safety documents from our suppliers during the vetting process. We are very transparent with our suppliers and what we are looking for and what we need, and the same mentality is then passed on to our customers. One of our goals is to be quick to respond to our customers’ needs in an efficient and effective manner. We do not want our customers waiting on us for questions to be answered or documents to be sent. They usually need this information either to move on with their production or may even be in the midst of an annual audit, which we all know is stressful. We aim to be very detailed and organized upfront when vetting our suppliers to help us achieve this goal with our customers.

Tara Hettinger [00:02:59]:
Smirk’s currently manages over 60,000 supplier documents in our system, which believe me is not an easy task to do. I have 2 phenomenal girls, Danielle and Kelsey, in our QA department that help manage and take care of these. They are integral to this department at Smirk’s being successful.

Garrett McBride [00:03:20]:
Yeah. 60,000 documents. That is bananas. Adding to that, the Smirks QA team goes above and beyond by thoroughly vetting all of our suppliers. We review every quality document looking for orange or red flags. When possible, we’ll make on-site visits to our suppliers. That’s what I love to do. Not only verifying that everything checks out on paper, but building the relationships and seeing their facilities firsthand, making sure that they’re doing everything that they say they’re doing all the time.

Elisa Louis [00:03:48]:
That’s an interesting point, Gary. You’ve traveled extensively for Smirk’s meeting suppliers and inspecting their facilities. Could you share a little bit about your approach on these visits and what are you typically looking for?

Garrett McBride [00:03:59]:
Yeah, absolutely. This is my favorite thing to do. I absolutely love this. And and a big part of the reason I joined the Smirk’s team, during these visits, my goal is to manage and and mitigate risk for Smirk’s and for our customers and to build and nurture the strong partnerships with our suppliers. Ultimately, you know, I serve as the food safety and quality assurance boogeyman because what I observe can make or break supplier’s future in doing business with Smirk’s and can make or break Smirk’s future with our customers because everybody needs high quality food safe ingredients. While on-site, I scrutinize anything and everything from the physical condition of their facilities to their product handling practices, pest and rodent control measures, foreign material detection systems, process documentation, and anything else we’ve identified as being a risk for a given supplier or product category. I take a trust and verify approach, and these face to face interactions make a huge difference in building a reliable partnership and allowing us to have faith in the practices of the folks that we choose to do business with.

Elisa Louis [00:05:01]:
I guess you didn’t have to dress up for Halloween, Garrett. You already hold the title of boogeyman.

Elisa Louis [00:05:06]:
But in

Elisa Louis [00:05:07]:
all seriousness, I know that those face to face on-site visits are such an important step in laying the foundation for a strong relationship with our suppliers. Now turning back to Tara. Smart’s customers and suppliers work with you daily, Tara. I know. However, they’ve never really gotten to know me, perhaps, the person behind the emails and the phone calls. Could you tell us a little bit about your professional background?

Tara Hettinger [00:05:33]:
Sure, Lisa. In my younger years, my mom, she was a manager in the food service industry, and I decided at that point as a teenager to follow in her footsteps and go into restaurant management as well. Spent a couple years at our junior college here in Sterling, Colorado, and then ended up transferring to UNLV in Las Vegas. As moved back to Colorado after Las Vegas and as things evolve in life, I realized the city life just wasn’t for me, and and my husband and I started dating. I lived in Denver at the time, and he lived in our small town of Moreno where I grew up. And after a few months of dating, I made the decision to move back to Moreno, back to my roots. There’s not a lot of food service opportunities in in our area, so I ended up managing the quality assurance and laboratory along with all OSHA regulations at our local ethanol processing facility. I did love the work.

Tara Hettinger [00:06:32]:
It just wasn’t quite what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I ended up making the move to the food ingredient manufacturing world. I worked here in Fort Morgan at a sugar beet processing facility as an assistant chemist in managing the day to day operations and a millet cleaning processing plant as a food safety quality assurance manager along with production scheduler. At the millet facility, that’s where I worked with Donnie and the SMIRCs team. Over the years, SMIRCs was very intriguing in regards to all of the different ingredients, origins, and just the scope of business overall. So one day, I gave Jam Donnie a phone call, and that was right before 4th July. Had a conversation with him, and as we all know, the rest is history. I I’m on my 5th year working with Smirks at this point.

Elisa Louis [00:07:22]:
That’s awesome. Really fun to hear your background, Tara. I mean, you’ve gone from food service to food safety. That’s quite a trip. So can you tell us a little bit too? I I love I think all of our listeners here would kinda love to hear what you do outside of work because it’s pretty cool.

Tara Hettinger [00:07:41]:
Sure. We live out in the middle of nowhere, out in the country on 36 acres. So as you can imagine, just the upkeep alone on that, it keeps us very busy throughout the entire year. But why not make ourselves even busier? Right? My parents, along with my husband and myself, have about 30 head of sheep, and we raise club lamps. And these are raised for kids that are involved in showing either through 4 h or FFA. We strongly believe in our youth, and as we always say, we’re helping raise phenomenal kids through these animals. My husband and I volunteer countless hours during the year for our annual county fair, which is always in August, usually the 1st full week, where these kids get to show off their hard work they put into their projects. So they show them and then they they, in turn, get to sell them for money, which helps with their projects on the following year.

Tara Hettinger [00:08:37]:
I’m also an avid gardener of both flowers and vegetables. Both my parents are gardeners. My dad was a farmer pretty much his entire life, and he’s now has a crazy hobby of growing giant pumpkins with his personal record being £941.

Elisa Louis [00:08:56]:
He’s Pretty sad. He’s

Tara Hettinger [00:08:57]:
yeah. He’s chasing that 1,000 pounder

Elisa Louis [00:09:00]:
and Unbelievable.

Tara Hettinger [00:09:02]:
Yeah. He grows everything outside, so the elements of the weather dictate a lot for him. So it’s frustrating, but rewarding when he gets those big ones.

Elisa Louis [00:09:12]:
For sure.

Tara Hettinger [00:09:14]:
Yeah. So and then my mom’s love to grow beautiful flowers. She has her own landscaping business after she left the food industry sector. Definitely piqued my interest years ago to kinda grow things and see what what I could do with them. So this, obviously, it takes up an enormous amount of time throughout the summer, but it truly is my stress reliever. And then in, other spare time I have, I love making candy. Halloween, it’s my favorite holiday, and and I love making homemade caramel apples for all the kids at work. And in my personal life, this year, I made 187 of them to I either sold them, gave them away for Halloween, and so that was a daunting task, but super fun.

Elisa Louis [00:10:03]:
Sounds like a labor of love.

Tara Hettinger [00:10:06]:
Yeah. It really is. I know. Yeah. Exactly. So I love debate that my passion really is on the candy side. If I ever happen to win the lottery, which we all know the chances of that happening, I would own my own candy making business. So that would that’s really in my foot keeps me crazy busy and going nonstop.

Tara Hettinger [00:10:26]:
That’s so cool.

Elisa Louis [00:10:28]:
It’s so fun to hear what people would do if they didn’t have to work another day in their life. I mean and your idea sounds pretty sweet, I gotta say. Sorry I couldn’t help myself. But, I know. I just envisioned that this would be like the most delicious and food safe candy company that I you could ever imagine. Right? Yeah. But, it’s fun to talk about that stuff. I might have told you that if I won the lottery, I’d like to work in a winery tasting room, pouring wine and chatting about wine with wine lovers all day long.

Elisa Louis [00:11:02]:
You know, it’s just so much fun to have that lottery dream.

Tara Hettinger [00:11:06]:
That wouldn’t be a bad gig either, Alisa.

Elisa Louis [00:11:08]:
Right? I know you like wine. Oh, yes. But, anyways, back to you. You’ve told me QA can be a boring topic, but, clearly, there’s a lot more to it. What drives you to do this work, and what are some of the challenges you face?

Tara Hettinger [00:11:23]:
I do joke that QA is boring. However, it it’s also very rewarding. It’s really about mitigating risk and doing our best to protect the people when these products proceed downstream to consumers. Mitigating risk, it’s really the name of the game, but what makes it challenging is even when the best practices and processes are in place, unexpected issues do arise. That’s why we are diligent in our approval process and very organized when we do day to day. Our goal is when these situations arise, we can quickly address them for all parties involved and get through whatever we’re dealing with at that point in time.

Elisa Louis [00:12:03]:
Alright. Well, thanks for that. And let’s, shift gears. Garrett, transparency is an important value here at Smirk’s. How does this set us apart?

Garrett McBride [00:12:14]:
Yeah. You nailed it. Transparency has been a value of Smirk’s from day 1. As a former Smirk’s customer for the better part of a decade and tell you how much I appreciated that and appreciate it now from this side of the ball. We openly share all the detailed information about our suppliers, including extensive quality documents so that our customers know exactly what they’re getting. No black box, no games, no funny business. You know what we know and we’re all better for it. This helps to build trust, strengthens our partnerships, which is what we all want out of this business in this world.

Garrett McBride [00:12:48]:
Most others in this industry tend to keep their information inside that locked black box and getting from customer view. And we feel it’s beneficial as we develop our partnerships that were completely forthcoming, and that strategy has paid off as a key competitive differentiator.

Elisa Louis [00:13:06]:
The first merge sources and supplies and ingredient, it definitely undergoes a rigorous vetting process that we’ve kinda chatted about here. But can you walk us through what that process entails?

Garrett McBride [00:13:17]:
Yes. Certainly. East Supplier goes through a multistep vetting process, which is quite extensive. It often includes an on-site facility visit to verify their standards, their facility, their practices, etcetera. We don’t just take documents at face value. We review every piece of paperwork thoroughly to make sure that they say they’re doing everything right. And then when possible, we actually lay eyes on what they’re doing to verify that they’re doing it in real life. We’re sourcing 30 items from 180 suppliers across 27 countries.

Garrett McBride [00:13:52]:
It’s a lot of work, but it ensures that we maintain the high quality standards that our customers rely on.

Elisa Louis [00:13:59]:
Garrett, thanks for sharing those stats. The sheer number of different items and suppliers and origins is truly mind blowing. Now, Tara, back to you.

Garrett McBride [00:14:08]:
It’s a huge job.

Elisa Louis [00:14:09]:
Yeah. Right?

Garrett McBride [00:14:10]:
24 hours.

Elisa Louis [00:14:12]:
It’s insane. I mean, when I think about that’s what we’re doing all day every day, it just really astounds me.

Garrett McBride [00:14:23]:
Yeah. Tara and her team are phenomenal. They do a killer job staying on top of this, managing ongoing. It’s an amazing amount of work, and it gets done to top.

Tara Hettinger [00:14:33]:
Appreciate that.

Elisa Louis [00:14:35]:
Alright. Now back to Tara. Alright. You’re on the hot seat again. I like learning about what a day in the life looks like. So what does the Smirk’s QA team do on a daily basis to support our customers?

Tara Hettinger [00:14:50]:
Well, obviously, every day looks a bit different, but we’re continually approving certificate of analysis on a per lot basis of product that we receive. We’re comparing these COAs to the spec sheets, making sure all the testing is within the spec limitations. We check the COA against labels that’s put on product. We make sure that the item description matches and that the lot numbers, production dates are within range. And this is just to name a few of the items that we’re looking at on labels and certificate of analysis. We’re very diligent and detailed with this process. Danielle approves our import COAs and label templates, and and Kelsey does our domestic COA and label templates. At any given time, we’re answering numerous questions, filling out questionnaires, sending supplier documents to various customers.

Tara Hettinger [00:15:43]:
We’re vetting new suppliers or ingredients for approved suppliers along with just the upkeep of the Smurfs organic, kosher, fair trade, and the regenerative organic certifications that we hold here at Smirk’s. On a continuous basis, we’re requesting new up to date docs from suppliers that either have hard expiry dates or statements that are dated past a year. This is just a brief glimpse as it takes great time, coordination, and a detail oriented mindset to do this daily. Making all of it come together in a smooth and efficient manner, It’s a challenge at times, but we pride ourselves on doing this well.

Elisa Louis [00:16:23]:
There’s a lot going on over there. That’s for sure. And and Garrett touched on it, but I just can’t I can’t say enough about the fact that managing 60,000 documents alone just takes my breath away. So, yeah, never a dull moment in QA. So, yes, not boring. That’s for sure right

Tara Hettinger [00:16:43]:
now. It’s definitely very busy. And when we’re busy selling, we can tell we may not know exactly how much we’re selling at the time, but we definitely fill it in the QA department by the request that we’re receiving.

Elisa Louis [00:16:59]:
I can imagine. So could you give us an example of when your QA team has really gone above and beyond for a customer?

Tara Hettinger [00:17:08]:
Sure. We we recently had a customer and had a very rigorous approval process. We kinda took the all hands on deck approach to fill out the forms, send supplier documents, answer remaining questions that they had, and we were fortunately able from start to finish to get this finalized and completed and approved by the customer within just a couple of days. They had sent an email back to us, and they were very thankful for the detail oriented mindset, the document organization, and making them feel more important that they were our number one priority through that process. And as the QA department, this is exactly what we aim to do with all of our customers at any given time.

Elisa Louis [00:17:49]:
Yeah. I mean, I’d say 48 hours is just like lightning speed for a new product approval, all things considered, all the parts and pieces and people involved to go into it. So that’s awesome, Tara.

Garrett McBride [00:18:00]:
You know, it’s worth the notion too, not just the organization within Smurfs, but the organization that all of these documents and all of this information is presented to the customer and the speed with which Tara Dinell and Kelsey accomplish that is another thing that sets Smurfs apart from really anybody else in this business. I know that after years of being on the purchasing side, gigantic competitive advantage for Smurfs is huge for our customers. It’s just a a great value add from this team.

Tara Hettinger [00:18:29]:
Yeah. We really try and and provide everything upfront to our customers. So, hopefully, they have it all in their hands immediately and don’t have to come back to us with further questions. It just makes their life easier

Elisa Louis [00:18:40]:
as well. Right on. Well, Garrett, let’s talk a a little bit about a different topic because I think this could be helpful for some customers that are always thinking about bringing on new products. If you were advising one of our customers about launching a new food product, what advice would you give them regarding quality and food safety?

Garrett McBride [00:19:02]:
Sure. I’ve definitely been there before. I think the most important thing is to be patient and diligent with your exploration. There are so many options out there for every product category across broad spectrum of cost and quality variables. It’s so important to find the right fit for your project and specification needs. Take the time to to really figure out what you need and then do it right. Given the current landscape, one of the most important things to consider is whether you need an ingredient that is raw or ready to eat. A raw ingredient is generally less costly than RTE, which is ready to eat, but will need to be further processed to guarantee that it’s safe from a microbiological standpoint.

Garrett McBride [00:19:47]:
For example, if the ingredient you purchase is going into a baked product, a baked finished good, the chances are you’ll be fine purchasing a LOFT specification because the ingredients are undergoing a heat treatment step, which is killing the pathogens that may be present. If the ingredients going directly into a retail package without further lethal processing to kill pathogens, you should seriously consider purchasing a ready to eat specification, that being one that an ingredient has undergone a kill step specifically addressing the minimum 5 log kill for salmonella in particular. Ingredients with the ready to eat designation have undergone that validated lethality step, ensuring that the pathogens are not present. We scrutinize our ready to eat suppliers and processes with extreme diligence to manage that potential risk for Smirk’s and for our customers. This is another huge differentiator between Smirk’s and then a lot of our competitors.

Elisa Louis [00:20:47]:
Right. I mean, I think it makes a lot of sense particularly on higher risk items, so I couldn’t agree more. Thanks a lot for for sharing that advice. Super helpful, I I think, to some folks out there. And in terms of when a customer is asking Smirk’s for a product we don’t actually offer, what do we do in that situation?

Garrett McBride [00:21:07]:
Yeah. We’re always willing to have a conversation with you or a potential customer around innovation and new product opportunities. If it makes sense for everybody involved, we’ll we’ll do everything we can to find a new supplier and solutions and invest them thoroughly. But going back to transparency, if the item you desire is not one that we’re we’re strong on, we’re also more than happy to introduce you to others in the industry that could better service your needs. You know, we know what we’re good at, and we like to leverage that. We know what other people are good at. We want to set you up for success as the customer. We are in this for the long term truly mutually beneficial partnerships and and really not interested in the short sight of transactional plays.

Garrett McBride [00:21:47]:
So again, we’ll be transparent with you about every facet of your ingredient exploration.

Elisa Louis [00:21:54]:
Right on. Well, thank you so much both of you for being on today, but particularly, I gotta say special thanks to Tara because, yeah, we had to twist your arm a little bit to be on here. But you know what? It was so worth it. Right? Am I right?

Tara Hettinger [00:22:10]:
Absolutely. Right. Lisa. You wore me down and I gave in.

Elisa Louis [00:22:18]:
I think it’s it’s fun to know, the person behind the QA team, and and I think it brings it to life, but it also shows your passion for what you do. So thanks for all that you do, you and your team. It’s clear to me that behind every quality product, there’s a dedicated team working to make sure that everything is top notch. So, again, thanks to you both for for joining me today.

Tara Hettinger [00:22:45]:
Yeah. Thank you. I mean, I hope this gives our listeners some insight into the great lengths that our department does go through in creating these phenomenal partnerships on both our supplier and our customer side. It goes both directions for us for sure.

Garrett McBride [00:22:59]:
Alright. Thanks, Tara and Alicia. We’ll see you next time.

Elisa Louis [00:23:03]:
Alright. Well, hey. That wraps up this segment of get the scoop with Smirk’s. We hope you’ll subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast so you can get the latest episode when it becomes available. And if you value this content, please share our podcast with a friend. Keep on listening. In order to catch our segment 2, where Tara is gonna introduce her QA team and in the last segment where we’re gonna share the latest market report for November.

Tara Hettinger [00:23:33]:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to segment 2 of get the scoop with Smirk’s episode number 15. We’re going to do something a little different in this segment. We’d like to focus more on the people that keep things running here at SMRX. Since this episode is all about quality assurance at SMRX, we’re excited to welcome the members of our QA team. Here at Smirk’s, the QA team’s goal is to provide partnerships with not only our customers, but our suppliers as well. In the last segment, you met me. I’m Tara Hettinger.

Tara Hettinger [00:24:03]:
I lead the QA team here at Smirk’s. But as mentioned, there’s a lot of QA work to do, and I couldn’t possibly do it without my team. So with me today, I’m excited to introduce my team members, Danielle Duff and Kelsey Malone. Danielle and Kelsey, welcome to the podcast.

Danielle Duff [00:24:21]:
Thanks, Tara. Excited to be here.

Tara Hettinger [00:24:23]:
Thanks, Tara. I appreciate you having me on. Typically, customers and suppliers rarely get to know the QA team member behind the phone or the email, so this is a unique opportunity to get to know both of you. Danielle, let’s start with you. Can you please tell us a little about yourself and what you like to do outside of work?

Danielle Duff [00:24:43]:
Hi. I’m Danielle Duff. I have a food science degree from CSU with a concentration in food safety and nutrition, and I am a huge nerd.

Tara Hettinger [00:24:52]:
We all love that. What? We all know that.

Danielle Duff [00:24:57]:
I love food science, specifically on the fermentation and preservation side. My family has been growing and canning our own food all my life, and I did my senior capstone project on the effects of lactobacillus starter culture adjuncts on the pH of feta cheese making. Again, nerd. But I also love crafting, cooking, canning, playing D and D and board games with my friends, and spending time with my husband and our 3 pets, Garth, Tonks, and Dexterity.

Tara Hettinger [00:25:27]:
Hey. Thanks for sharing. What is it that piqued your interest to wanna join SMIRCs, and how does your educational and professional background tie into our QA roles?

Danielle Duff [00:25:37]:
I started college as a microbiology major. Learning about microbials and genetic modification was fascinating to me. However, 2 years into microbiology, I found out I’m allergic to agar agar, the substance that is used to grow bacteria. So I had to change majors, and I found the food science major that still allowed me to use my knowledge that I had just removing the parts of the lab work. After college, because of my cheese project, I worked at a company called Laprino that makes mozzarella cheese. I was there for a few months but was not happy with how I was able to use my food knowledge and that my job was over 50 miles away from where I lived and the commute wasn’t working. So I looked on a job search site under food safety, and Smirk’s quality associate popped up. I applied right away because the job description made me feel like I could use my food science knowledge, and it was much closer to home.

Danielle Duff [00:26:28]:
When I interviewed, I felt like the people here really wanted to learn about what I said about food safety, microbes, and pathogens. I have been at Smurcs here for about a year and a half, and I’m so happy I found Smurcs, where I can be my nerdy self and use my food science degree every single day.

Tara Hettinger [00:26:45]:
What is it about the QA work that you find most rewarding?

Danielle Duff [00:26:49]:
I feel like everyone has the right to save food, and we, as an importer and distributor, have a direct hand in making sure the food products that we are distributing are safe for everyone to consume.

Tara Hettinger [00:27:00]:
Danielle, we talked above about your interest, but you didn’t quite tell us how insanely crazy you are about your crafting and all the projects that you do. Tell us how many items you have made for the 3 craft shows that you did or are doing this year, And also tell our listeners how it scares both of us at times, how we are both on the same wavelength. Give our listeners an example.

Danielle Duff [00:27:24]:
So I do have my largest craft fair of the season this weekend, and I have been doing this craft fair with my mom ever since I was born, but I’ve recently taken over for my mom and done a lot more crafts. This year, I’ve canned over 200 jars of homegrown raspberry jam and a 100 bottles of raspberry simple syrup. I’ve recently gotten into wood burning, and I’ve burned around a 100 wood projects. We sew coasters and bowl koozies, plus I make tea towels that say smarkey singings. I nearly sold out of those at the beginning of November, so I hope to have about 50 of them done for this weekend. I know it does seem insanely crazy, but crafting is my therapy. It’s where my imagination runs wild, and I get to create something that makes others happy or a delicious treat to brighten someone’s day. But I also never know when to stop crafting, and I will probably be trying to get one more project done up until the crafty

Tara Hettinger [00:28:23]:
hours. Have you slept this week, Danielle?

Danielle Duff [00:28:28]:
Not enough.

Tara Hettinger [00:28:29]:
Carry on. And

Danielle Duff [00:28:33]:
as for you and I being on the same wavelength, the amount of times we send the same email at the same time or respond to a coworker asking a question word for word the same time is amazing. Recently, we had a really busy week here, and I thought I would stop for coffee or, in my case, tea. I should not drink coffee for us both before work, only to find out you thought the exact same thing, so we both had 2 drinks to drink that day. Now we message each other beforehand just to spread the coffee out of it.

Tara Hettinger [00:29:05]:
We sure do. Thanks, Danielle. Appreciate your background. Kelsey, can you tell us a little bit about your professional background and why you originally joined Smirk’s?

Kelsey Malone [00:29:18]:
Oh, where do I begin? I’ve been in health care for about basically 16 years. The past three and a half years, I’ve worked at UCHealth Anschutz Medical Campus in Aurora, which is the number one ranked hospital in Colorado and the 8th ranked in the nation. I am a sterile certified sterile processing tech, which basically means we process any instruments to use during surgery. And I’m still PR in, and I do a couple overnight shifts here and there throughout the month. When I decided to look elsewhere for work outside the health care field simply because who wants to drive 76 miles each direction each day? So one day, my mom emailed me that Smurfs was hiring an administration assistant, so I went ahead and applied. I knew when applying, it was going to be one of the best decisions. I know Nick, Donnie, Mike, and April from when my mom worked at Ruger Green for years. So I knew that I would love the family atmosphere that Smurk provides.

Kelsey Malone [00:30:08]:
A year and a half later, I can say, honestly, the best choice for me career wise.

Tara Hettinger [00:30:14]:
Kelsey, some people shy away from the QA. Why did you decide to join Smirk’s QA department, and and what do you find interesting and challenging about the job?

Kelsey Malone [00:30:23]:
Basically, Tara brined me to take this job on. Just kidding. When I was hired at Smirk’s originally, I was an administration assistant in which I did inbounding and releasing to and from our warehouses of products. On a slower days, Tara would give me projects to work and help out the QA department. Now for someone who only knows health care terminology, looking at QA documents was a complete foreign language to me. So Google became my best friend along with, looking up terms. So what do they mean? Why are they important to food safety? And the list could go on and on. But, eventually, 6 to 7 months later into my position, a QA position opened up, and Tara pulled me into her office and basically asked me, hey.

Kelsey Malone [00:31:03]:
You gonna apply for this position? And I said, I planned on it. And since April, I’ve been in the QA department. Joining the QA team, you need to be paying attention to details, staying organized, and not be afraid to ask questions. And with those skills, I felt that I could tackle the position. QA is a tedious job. You must pay attention to every detail on any documentation that you receive. It amazes me the number and variety of products that we disperse to our customers and how each product has its own profile, basically. It’s pretty cool when walking into a grocery store and seeing the product that we sent our customers on the shelves.

Kelsey Malone [00:31:37]:
I would say the most challenging part about this position is not compromising quality. There are so many different time lines for our customers and traders that product needs to be received or new product needs to be vetted. Our process in QA is very stringent and needs everything to be black and white with no potential at carrier area. So to make sure that we follow everything down to the last t and make sure all those questions are answered before we go and then stamp our approval.

Tara Hettinger [00:32:04]:
So outside of work, how do you like to spend your time, Kels?

Kelsey Malone [00:32:08]:
So, basically, outside of work, I’m currently going to school to get my bachelor’s of science in human resources with a concentration of business analytics. So most of my spare time is actually spent doing homework, but once in a while when I get it done, I enjoy watching my nieces play sports, road trips, been watching shows or movies, gardening, and hanging out with my family, and going on truck hauls with my boyfriend and our German short haired grooster.

Tara Hettinger [00:32:31]:
How many concerts have you been to this year, Kells?

Kelsey Malone [00:32:34]:
Too many to count, and all of them forget.

Tara Hettinger [00:32:36]:
Fantastic. Which one was the best one you went to?

Kelsey Malone [00:32:40]:
I would say jelly roll and Cheyenne Frontier Days. It was pretty good.

Tara Hettinger [00:32:43]:
Heck, yeah. I know that you have nieces, but I know your oldest niece, you were more than just an aunt too. Can you tell us a little about her and her accomplishments? I sure can.

Kelsey Malone [00:32:54]:
My niece, Payton, is more of a daughter to me than a niece, and I’m not her aunt Kelsey. I’m her mama, Kate. In 2019, when I moved back to Colorado from Nebraska, Payton more or less moved in with me, and she was 14 at the time. She started high school in Wiggins that following fall. And then in high school, she excelled in academic sports volleyball track and with a couple years of wrestling as well. She was an active member of 4 h and played club volleyball for 4 years. So needless to say that we were a lot of long days and a lot of road trips with our scores. She’s definitely more well traveled than me than I’m at 32.

Kelsey Malone [00:33:28]:
She also has 2 state volleyball champion rings. Anything that kid sets her mind to, she went above and beyond expectations. She graduated in May of 2024 at Tallbrook Class, and she packed her car up and we moved her to West Texas A&M in Canyon, Texas, where she’s getting her associates in business ag and wants to become a realtor as well. She has great accomplishments ahead, and I can’t wait to see where she makes it

Garrett McBride [00:33:50]:
in her life.

Tara Hettinger [00:33:51]:
Girls, that was a lot of fun to get to know you and and let our listeners get to know you as well. Thank you for partaking in and agreeing to do this with me. We wanna thank our listeners for joining us today on episode 15 of get the scoop with smirks. But stay tuned as next up, Garrett will be sharing the latest market report for November 2024. If you ever have any questions for Smirk’s about our products or specific QA questions, please don’t hesitate to contact what’s new at smirks.com or visit our website for more information as well and how to contact us. Thanks, everyone.

Garrett McBride [00:34:33]:
Hey. Welcome back. It’s time for the market report accompanying episode 15 of the Get the Scoop of Smirks podcast. I’m Garrett filling in for Donnie again. Lucky you. Let’s jump right into it here. Let’s talk about pumpkin seeds. Conventional pumpkin kernels from China are trading at near historic low levels as a result of high yields from additional acreage planted during the last crop cycle.

Garrett McBride [00:34:56]:
The price and availability gap between conventional and organic pumpkin kernels is larger than normal this year because of widespread positive herbicide testing that’s forced the conversion of a lot of organic inventory to conventional. It caused a lot of problems. There is some speculation that heavy rain and flooding in some of the primary growing regions in China caused runoff of substances banned in organic production to contaminate the organic fields nearby. We recommend that you cover your organic pumpkin needs for 2025 now to secure volume and that you cover your conventional demand now as the market is not likely to soften further without farmers going off to markets. Sunflower. Widespread drought throughout the Eastern European growing regions have caused serious issues with sunflower. Market conditions are not expected to improve until next crop cycle. EU crop reports released earlier this month indicate up to a 25% reduction from June estimates.

Garrett McBride [00:35:52]:
That’s down to 8,140,000 metric tons from 10,800,000 metric tons, significant decrease. Global demand continues to increase, placing additional pressure on an already strained market. We recommend that you secure adequate coverage for your 2025 demand as soon as possible as availability will almost certainly become an issue moving through next year. On to chia. Overall, the chia crop in Paraguay, which is the primary growing region globally, was large estimated to be near 60,000 metric tons or roughly 10% more than last crop year. However, there is a significant gap in availability between organic and conventional product as many organic loads are failing herbicide tests and are being converted to conventional. There will be adequate volumes of conventional chia on the market through 2025 where organic will be increasingly difficult to source as most of the large producers are already off the market and just focusing now on fulfilling existing contracts. We recommend securing as much of your 2025 organic needs quickly as availability is likely to be an issue in the coming year.

Garrett McBride [00:37:00]:
Coconut, coconut, coconut. Coconut markets have reached a 2 year high as El Nino weather patterns have created raw material shortage in many of the growing regions globally. Some have reported kernel size and weights averaging 50% of normal as a result of the dry conditions over the better part of last year. Additionally, China has been purchasing huge quantities of uncracked nuts and further driving that market upward. To add insult to injury, on the opposite side of the weather spectrum, the Philippines have experienced 4 typhoons in the past 3 weeks resulting in severe flooding and loss of life. Tough to catch a break this year. Very unfortunate. There seems to be a trend of producers shipping late and short because of that lack of raw materials to process.

Garrett McBride [00:37:45]:
Be prepared to pay more and wait longer for desiccated coconut for the next 4 to 6 months as conditions are expected to improve and the manufacturers dig out of this hole. Talking about some tree nuts, walnuts. The USA crop is significantly smaller than the estimates have been. Processors are not offering too much right now until they get more in shell product in their possession. The organic crop is sold very quickly and it has been almost impossible to get new crop offers. Prices are going to continue to increase as the supply tightens and the situation progresses. Organics are a big concern Talking about cashews, everyone is anxiously waiting for any signs of information on the new crop to give us a direction as to where the market may go. Some processors in Vietnam are completely out of raw cashew nuts to process, so they’ve shut down for the season.

Garrett McBride [00:38:38]:
Tim Young (3five zero six): Prices have not shown much movement down and broken grades remain in tight supply. Some people in Vietnam have shared the significant rain may cause a late crop as well as adding to the squeeze on the supply waiting for the new crop. We need more time to get a clearer picture of how the market is progressing on the new crop, so stay tuned for the coming months for more information about cashews. Jack Wolf (3five zero six): Macadamia nuts. Some really positive news out of Kenya is that the government is stepping in to stabilize the chaos caused by allowing exports of in shell macadamia nuts from the last year. This really set the whole market into chaos and led to prices going up significantly all season. The hope is that the processors of kernels in Kenya will be able to help stabilize the supply and will again be able to be reliable for supplying shelled macadamia for the new crop which will begin in February. If this news stays positive, we could begin to see some stability in the market again.

Garrett McBride [00:39:36]:
But it’s a little early to tell. South Africa and Australia have been booking new crops, new crop contracts for shipment in May forward but at very high prices. China continues to increase their appetite for macadamia nuts, and we have heard that they continue to book new crop at these high prices. It’s going to be really interesting to watch and see how this all plays out. So stay tuned month to month as this information evolves. Please keep in mind that commodity markets are moving targets. New information pops up daily, and all of this information is subject to change based on weather, politics and a multitude of other external factors way out of anybody’s control. Give us a call.

Garrett McBride [00:40:14]:
Give us an email. What’s new at smirks.com for the most up to date crop and market information or if you just wanna chat.

Garrett McBride [00:40:21]:
Thanks for tuning in.

Garrett McBride [00:40:22]:
Talk to you next month.

Garrett McBride [00:40:24]:
So that’s it for this episode of Get the Scoop with Smurfs podcast, where we bring you the latest market reports, insights into bulk ingredients and their origins, as well as in-depth product information. So if you have any questions, feedback, or just want a sample to taste for yourself, visit the smirks.com website or email us at what’s new at smyrks.com. Never miss a future episode. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks so much for tuning in.

The post Transcript: Smirk’s Quality Assurance appeared first on Bulk Ingredient Network.

Elisa Louis [00:00:50]:
Hello, and welcome back to the get the scoop with Smirk’s podcast. My name is Elisa Louis, and I’m here with my colleague, Garrett McBride. Now as a supplier of organic and conventional bulk ingredients, Smirk’s follows the fall harvest of various items very closely. And this time of year, there’s several new crops we keep a close eye on. Those include pumpkin seeds, chia seeds, sunflower seeds, oats, and also California nuts, specifically almonds and walnuts. We’d like to do a deep dive into each of these crops to give you insights into the growing conditions, indicative crop reports at origin, as well as the weather conditions. We’ll key in on planting report estimates and anticipated volumes and other factors that may impact the crop. Finally, we’ll offer our buying and contracting recommendations based on our current intel.

Elisa Louis [00:01:45]:
After the first segment, Garrett will give us a market report featuring the latest on the coconut market, which is a big topic these days. There’s a lot to unpack with coconut, and we’ll explore flax and other items as well, not to mention how ocean freight rates are impacting the cost of a variety of items, these days. Hey, Garrett. It’s great to be with you here on this podcast today talking about the fall crops. How are you?

Elisa Louis [00:02:11]:
I’m doing great. I’m excited to chat about this year’s northern hemisphere fall harvest.

Elisa Louis [00:02:16]:
To kick it off, pumpkin seeds are a big item for Smurx in terms of volume. And a bit of trivia, this is the first item that Smirk’s started importing way back when we started in 2007. And while we primarily import both conventional and organic pumpkin seeds from China, where about 70% of pumpkin seeds are actually grown, we do source from Austria and Mexico as well. But today, we’re really focused on the major origin of China, where they grow the Shine Skin variety of pumpkin seed. Shine Skin pumpkin seeds are a light to medium green color, and Smirk’s focuses on grades a, a plus, and AA. Now a plus, in case you didn’t know, is like a mix of a and double a. And in China, there are large scale farms with high efficiency harvesting and processing methods, and the product is steam pasteurized at origin. Garrett, what are we seeing this year in terms of the volume of planting in China and the crop prediction for the fall?

Garrett McBride [00:03:18]:
Right. So far, we’re seeing a lot of very positive indications around the pumpkin harvest. Planting acreage is reported to have been significantly higher this year than in previous years. Organic yield is always a bit less plentiful than conventional and time will tell how those proportions look, you know, this particular crop year. Worth noting, the Chinese harvest started in late August and is wrapping up as we record this now in late September. So we’re in a bit of a transition period between crop years right now and global demand has been pretty quiet up to this point. With overall pumpkin seed supply looking strong and low export demand from China, markets have softened to comfortable levels and it’s a buyer’s market.

Elisa Louis [00:03:58]:
We know that every year there’s other factors that come into play with the Chinese pumpkin market, including those speculators that come in and buy a fair share of the volume and hold the product and later resell, which often increases prices. Ocean freight costs can also come into play. As of now, what are you seeing, Garrett, in terms of these factors?

Garrett McBride [00:04:20]:
So far, speculators have largely stayed away from the Chinese pumpkin seed markets. This is a significant contributing factor to the overall reduction in demand that we’ve been seeing. Ocean freight rates out of China have settled a bit over the past month. Between that and soft markets at origin, it’s a great time to contract and lock these favorable market conditions down.

Elisa Louis [00:04:41]:
Good stuff, Garrett. Hey. Let’s shift gears a little bit and talk about chia seeds. We typically source our organic and conventional chia from Paraguay. We normally keep close tabs on the weather patterns as we get closer to harvest time, often looking at the timing of the first frost, for example. And in general, the chia market has been known to be historically unpredictable. Garrett, you visited processors in Paraguay earlier this year. What can you tell us about the chia seed growing conditions, plantings for this crop cycle, and predicted volumes?

Garrett McBride [00:05:17]:
Sure. Yeah. I love Paraguay. I love chia. This crop here started out looking very good in Paraguay from a weather standpoint, from a planting standpoint. Up until June, conditions couldn’t have been more favorable and chia prices were falling in anticipation of what some were calling a super bumper crop harvest. Then came a late summer drought impacting mostly the northern growing region in Paraguay and speculation around the impact of that quickly firm markets. This year’s crop is anticipated to be between 55,060,000 metric tons, which is pretty well in line with, what we saw last year, maybe slightly higher.

Garrett McBride [00:05:58]:
However, typically the conventional to organic breakdown is 70%, 30%. This year, it’s looking to be closer to 5050 and it may be worthwhile to pay close attention to organic markets over time and and as the harvest really wraps up and and the new crop is understood fully.

Elisa Louis [00:06:17]:
Oh, that’s really interesting. And so what do you see as far as other factors that we should bear in mind with Chia?

Garrett McBride [00:06:24]:
Yeah. Paraguay is super interesting. It’s a landlocked nation. Paraguay relies heavily on its river systems to transfer goods to the ocean ports for the final shipment. The drought experienced in Paraguay this year has dropped water levels in the Paraguay River, the primary river, to the point where shipments to port have been significantly reduced and slowed. Ocean freight rates, South America have also increased dramatically over the past few months, and some packers who had initially written CIF contracts are defaulting just based on the freight increases.

Elisa Louis [00:06:58]:
Okay. Well, drought strikes again, impacting yet another important waterway. Yeah. Good to know. So to sum it all up, Garrett, what is Smirk’s recommendation in terms of contracting for Chia?

Garrett McBride [00:07:11]:
Chia is always fun. This time last year, there was speculation that Chia prices would rise after the Anewga show in Germany, and they did not. Anewga’s sister show, SIAL, which happens, in October in Paris, will be a good source of information for us and and a potential point of volatility for the Chia markets. We’ll be watching closely for global demand signals and market movement after folks, including myself, return from Paris in the CIAL show. When it comes to Chia, nothing is happening quickly right now from processing to testing, shipments, NLP certificate issuance, that’s the organic certificates. Smirk’s recommends locking in volume now to stay ahead of the demand surges that are likely to come and take advantage of the favorable market.

Elisa Louis [00:08:00]:
Well, it’s gonna be a great great timing for you to go to see all and really dive a little deeper into Chia and some of the other markets, but particularly this Chia market. That’s it’s it’s interesting

Garrett McBride [00:08:12]:
It’s always fun.

Elisa Louis [00:08:13]:
To say the least. Alright. Well, hey. Let’s move on to explore the sunflower market next. This is also a staple item for Smurcs, both conventional and organic sunflower, primarily kernels and bakery grade kernels, but other specs are available by customer request as well. Smurx imports the majority of our bulk sunflower from Bulgaria, but we also source some from Turkey and from the USA. Garrett, what are some of the key things for us to know about these different growing regions and the volume of plantings for this fall harvest?

Garrett McBride [00:08:50]:
Yeah. You said it’s first sunflower kernels generally come from Bulgaria, Turkey, and the United States. This summer was really hot in Eastern Europe and the result of that heat was severe crop damage in those growing regions. It was very, very bad. Not only did the heat impact the yield of the sunflower crop, but it’s really impacted the quality of the kernels which were able to be harvested. And that just means it takes more volume to run through the cleaning and sorting lines for us to put together quality full loads to, to import into the United States. So it’s just an added challenge and any extra salt in the wound around the conditions of this commodity. In the USA, plantings for kernel crop were estimated to be down by around 30% compared to last year.

Garrett McBride [00:09:36]:
However, still, a bit too early to tell what the US crop size will look like at this point, but we are keeping our eyes on domestic production, you know, as that situation evolves and we’ll be able to provide additional guidance, later on down the road.

Elisa Louis [00:09:50]:
Okay, definitely one to keep an eye on. And what other factors should our listeners bear in mind with the sunflower crop?

Garrett McBride [00:09:57]:
Yeah, global demand continues to rise and supply will be limited this year. Markets will continue to firm and availability will continue to be challenging. You know, for the benefit of guaranteeing coverage for your demand, you being the customer, we recommend contracting as soon as you can. Smurx has a great sunflower position right now, and please call us if you need coverage.

Elisa Louis [00:10:22]:
Alright. So thanks for weighing in on sunflower. That was super helpful. One of the growing items for Smurx in terms of volume is oats, and the oat market has moved around the last couple of years due to various factors in terms of the crop and consumer demand. One thing we can recognize, just walking down the aisles of a grocery store, is that there’s just so many more products made from oats than ever before. It’s really on trend. You know, it didn’t seem to be like that just a little bit ago. You didn’t see oat products in the refrigerated dairy section of the grocery store, but that’s all changed.

Elisa Louis [00:11:00]:
I mean, if you walk down the aisles, you see nondairy milk, coffee creamers, nondairy cheeses, vegan butters made from oats. And then, of course, you look at the energy bars, and there’s a new energy bar popping up all the time made from oats. And, of course, you go down the oatmeal aisle, and you see the usual oatmeal, but then you also see the on the go packaged oatmeal products as well. So needless to say, it’s a really important part of what Smurx offers, and we offer both organic and conventional bulk oats, and we certainly offer gluten free as well. Garrett, could you tell us about the growing conditions and plantings for the oats, which we primarily source from Canada and any weather patterns that may have an impact on the crop?

Garrett McBride [00:11:47]:
Sure thing. Yeah. Generally speaking, across the Canadian prairie, growing conditions this year were very good. It rained when it was supposed to rain. It stayed dry when the farmers needed it to stay dry. All indications up to this point are are favorable for oats this year. Happy to report.

Elisa Louis [00:12:06]:
Beautiful. Love to hear that. That’s awesome. So what are we seeing in terms of the potential volume this year in comparison to previous crops?

Garrett McBride [00:12:15]:
Yeah. Based on what we’ve been hearing about the weather and the planting in the Canadian all growing regions, the harvest yield looks to be very strong compared to last year’s crop. There are some questions around the quality of the oats, meaning they might be lightweight relative to previous years and previous harvests, but the Canadian harvest efforts are nearly complete, and we should have a a much better picture of volume and quality here in in the near future.

Elisa Louis [00:12:40]:
Great. So in light of that information, what are SMERC’s recommendations in terms of contracting and coverage on conventional and in terms of contracting and coverage on conventional and organic OATS? It’s gonna be a great year to contract OATS.

Garrett McBride [00:12:49]:
We’ve been signing customer contracts for OATS lately, and now is a great time to call Smirk’s for next year’s coverage. Send us your needs and let us get to work finding solutions and then saving you money. Worth noting, we also have very strong gluten free options and all partners with access to regenerative organic certified material, if that suits your needs.

Elisa Louis [00:13:17]:
Excellent. Okay. So to round out coverage of our fall crops, we wanted to definitely dive into California crops, specifically organic and conventional almonds and walnuts. So let’s focus on walnuts. California almond farmers experienced a very abundant crop 2 crop cycles ago, but what are we seeing this year?

Garrett McBride [00:13:38]:
The California tree nut growing conditions were largely very favorable this season. Excellent weather during the bloom, which is one of the most critical times in in the crop cycle for things to, go right. And beef flight hours, which is another metric that’s extremely important for the development of, you know, the almond trees, the almond growth, were reported to have been significantly higher this year than last. The USDA objective report for almonds indicated around 2,800,000,000 meat pounds. But with a smaller crop last year and minimal carry in, the total available this year will likely not even come close to approaching the £3,000,000,000 total that we saw 2 seasons ago. We are seeing significant increases in walnut and almond costs with growing global demand and, a slight reduction in overall supply, especially on the organic side of things.

Elisa Louis [00:14:33]:
So what does Smirk’s suggest this fall in terms of contracting and coverage on California Almonds as well as walnuts.

Garrett McBride [00:14:41]:
Smurx is actively closing contracts for California tree nuts for 2025 demand now as we speak. If our listeners would like to get to work on locking up a position, please let us know. It’s a great time. Even at higher costs, almonds and walnuts remain the best value in the tree nut world, you know, as markets for Brazil nuts, max, and cashews have increased at a much more dramatic level relative to the California tree nuts.

Elisa Louis [00:15:08]:
Alright, Garrett. Well, thanks so much for sharing all these crop insights with us today. This conversation has definitely shed light on the fact that Smirk’s closely monitors the northern hemisphere fall crops. So it’s really not a surprise that so many of our fall harvest items crack the Smirk’s top bulk ingredients list in terms of volume. For our listeners and friends in the industry, this is a great time to explore your fall crop needs. Whether you’re a regular user or a new user of organic or conventional pumpkin seeds, chia seeds, sunflower seeds, oats, and California almonds and walnuts, we hope this podcast has been helpful for you. Please remember, though, that these crops and markets are known to change as the season goes on. And while we don’t have a crystal ball to predict exactly what will happen, our Smurx purchasing team relies on years of experience coupled with our network of suppliers to provide updates and insights on the markets.

Garrett McBride [00:16:08]:
Yeah. Our goal is to help to provide the best possible information available to us, to help our customers make informed buying decisions. So we always invite you to call, email us at what’s new at smurks.com or send an inquiry through our smurks.com website. We’re here to help you feel as prepared as possible in navigating the the various ingredient markets. Thanks so much for tuning in to segment 1 of episode 14 of the Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast, but don’t leave us yet. Stay tuned. You don’t wanna miss our second segment, which is the market report featuring other key items such as coconut and flax and an update on ocean freight rates. If you haven’t already, please hit the subscribe button to automatically have immediate access to each new podcast episode.

Garrett McBride [00:16:55]:
And if you value our content, you can support us by rating our podcast and sharing it with a friend. Thanks again.

Elisa Louis [00:17:01]:
Thanks everyone.

Garrett McBride [00:17:05]:
Hello and welcome to the market update for episode 14 of Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast. I’m Derek filling in with Donnie and today we’re going to be reviewing markets for all things coconut as well as sunflower and cashews. Hold on tight. Here we go. Start with coconut. Current situation. In the last few months, we’ve seen very strong volatility in the coconut markets and we expect this to continue for the next few months at least through Q1 of 2025. El Nino really reduced both the size of the coconuts and the coconut crop globally.

Garrett McBride [00:17:41]:
Although global demand for coconut was soft in 2023, we have seen it pick back up in 2024. Presently, many buyers are not fully covered on coconut or were only covered through the end of 2024. The limited coverage, smaller crop, and reduced nut size have created a supply chain gap driving prices up to levels comparable to those seen during the COVID time frame. Where’s the market headed? Historically, these issues have resulted in market conditions worsening in Q4 and Q1 before the situation improves. Because SMERCs imports coconut products from multiple origins, here’s the breakdown by country. Talking about the Philippines, Philippines already facing production reductions based on the size of the nuts being smaller than normal. We’ve had some reports that expect, coconut size, physical size of the nuts to be up to half of what they usually are, which obviously contributes to a raw material constraint. One supplier expects to cut production on open orders by up to 30%.

Garrett McBride [00:18:45]:
Competition in the Philippines for raw nuts is fierce not only for those producing desiccated coconut but also for crude coconut oil. Producers anticipate that new nuts will be ready in April and they should return to normal sizes once the weather patterns normalize. Most major packers are sold out for 2024 and worry they may need to roll some of their 2024 commitments into 2025. As a result, Q1 quotes are very limited, although some producers are still offering limited quantities. In Sri Lanka, generally the annual crop in Sri Lanka is around 3,000,000,000 coconuts. Domestic annual consumption of Sri Lankan coconuts is about 2,000,000,000, leaving approximately 1,000,000,000 nuts for the export market. Challenge we’re dealing with now is that the current coconut crop is only 2,600,000,000, which reduces the available coconuts for export by 40%. Many Sri Lankan suppliers are oversold with no product to process or ship and as a result, the prices continue to rise.

Garrett McBride [00:19:51]:
Shippers are already months behind on some orders and the risk of defaulting on contracts is real. The dry season in Sri Lanka will run from November to about March or April of 2025. The next dry season hoppers much less raw materials to process. We don’t expect much improvement in Sri Lanka until at least April. Moving on to Indonesia. Earlier this year, some regions in Indonesia sold a lot of their coconuts directly to China. It was stated the Chinese buyers came and purchased the nuts directly from the Indonesian farmers and this caught the local processors off guard. Instantaneously prices increased and we experienced several shipping delays as a result of the Chinese demand.

Garrett McBride [00:20:36]:
Suppliers are only selling now once they know their actual coconut volumes in hand for the upcoming months, which is smart on their part. For example, in early September, they offered a select number of production spots just for October, very hand to mouth. Indonesia’s dry season will be from November this year to March of 2025. Yet again, another reason things will be tighter there until Q2 of 2025. Last origin we’ll discuss is Vietnam. Vietnam has been a very reliable shipper this year from May up until the present. However, they’re now waiting for more coconut to come in and their pricing has increased significantly. The hope is that in November December of this year, we’ll see prices start to soften from Vietnam, which would add support to the coconut market.

Garrett McBride [00:21:21]:
What steps should you be considering? Here’s our take. Seek coverage immediately if you have not done so. For all of the reasons already covered, we expect the markets will remain tight and expensive. Diversify your supply chain with multiple origins. Use a combination of origins and suppliers to mitigate the risk to supply and avoid disruptions. We saw this during COVID and it’s apparent again right now. In other words, seek to onboard new suppliers. Smirk sales and QA teams are here to help if that’s a path you choose to travel down.

Garrett McBride [00:21:57]:
With Vietnam being possibly the first to offer relief to the market, their product could sell quite quickly. Currently Vietnam is still offering competitive prices on RBD and VCO coconut oil. Looking for coverage through Q2 of 2025, if the Philippines supply approves in April as hoped along with Indonesia and Sri Lanka moving out of their dry seasons at the same time, markets could recover during that time period. Making sure you’re covered through Q2 will guarantee that you have supply, but will also set you up properly if the market does decline as they normalize. You won’t be locked into long term contracts that are too costly relative to the market. This will allow you to wait and see how things progress later in 2025 as we are expecting some improvement. Key takeaways when it comes to coconut, Higher prices are expected to persist at least into the spring of 2025. Raw material supplies at origin and coconut supply stocks in the USA are both lower than they should be.

Garrett McBride [00:22:54]:
Diversifying your supply chain is a good hedge against supply disruptions. By April 2025, we hope to have a clearer picture of the direction of the coconut markets. Let’s move on to coconut sugar. Current situation, El Nino has caused serious damage to the supply chains in Indonesia. In 2023, we experienced shortages that extended into most of 2024. This year, the trees were still stressed and produced much less sap, which is required to make the sugar. Ramadan was also earlier in 2024 than in previous years and this gave the processors less time to secure raw material to process after Ramadan. The shortage of raw material prior to Ramadan triggered a surge in demand for the available supply.

Garrett McBride [00:23:39]:
This led to intense competition amongst domestic companies in Indonesia and with exporters. Adding to the problems in March of 2024, when the new NOP organic rules went into effect, it caused an even larger strain on the organic raw material supplies in Indonesia. The industry was not fully ready for the transition to providing NOP import certificates for all USA shipments. The demand for truly organic product increased the pressure and this summer we saw 30% increases in prices at the farm level. That’s for raw materials. Many shippers were still months behind on shipments from the shortages both before and after Ramadan. This added up to a shortage of Indonesian coconut sugar that we’re still dealing with. Besides the issues at origin, we continue to see new product innovations and more demand from existing customers for coconut sugar.

Garrett McBride [00:24:32]:
Overall, we’re facing many challenges with coconut sugar, including lack of supply, increased pricing, and no really clear idea as to when the supply chain will catch up in Indonesia. However, we’ve seen this situation before and rest assured, processors have consistently managed to adapt and catch up. Information from the field in Indonesia suggests that domestic demand has slowed down and we may expect things to normalize by the end of 2024. Where’s the market heading you asked? Indonesia owns the coconut sugar supply chain for most major markets. Philippines has never been able to compete with Indonesia so most customers are relying on Indonesia to solve these issues. Most major suppliers are sold out for 2024 now. It is not easy to secure large volume orders offers from the main suppliers in Indonesia. Prices have increased dramatically and show no signs of decreasing as of yet.

Garrett McBride [00:25:25]:
Ramadan is earlier in 2025 than it was in 2024 so this could be one of the last speed bumps before recovery of this market. Note that Ramadan is approximately February 28th to March 29th, 2025. So keep that in mind when planning your demand for coconut sugar. Additionally, there’s very little sugar in the USA available for spot sales right now. We do not anticipate that importers will be able to catch up in 2024. It may take until q2 of 2025 before the supply chain stabilizes. NOP import certificate issuance continues to cause delays with the timing of loads even after they’re prepared in Indonesia. Certification bodies are slow in inspecting prepared loads, which contributes to the delays we experienced once the loads were ready to ship.

Garrett McBride [00:26:15]:
Ocean freight remains an obstacle from Indonesia and we do not yet have a clear idea of rates November and beyond. There are some reports that rates could start to drop, which is very welcome news, but we have yet to see that in reality. And for now, we don’t know if the market conditions will improve until producers can reliably access more raw materials. There’s a chance we won’t have a clear understanding of how this will unfold until after Ramadan in 2025. Q2 remains the best estimate for when things might return to normal in the coconut sugar world. Weather in Indonesia has improved compared to a year ago and raw material production is starting to get back on track. Processors have indicated that a significant amount of raw material should become available in the next few months and they expect to be 2 to 3 times greater than it was in 2024. What steps should you be considering? We suggest getting coverage through Q2 of 2025.

Garrett McBride [00:27:14]:
If we do see price decreases, it will be after Ramadan as the supply chain catches up. However, this material will not hit the USA until summertime. Getting coverage through early next year will still leave the door open to take advantage of price decreases if and when they come around in 2025. Exercise caution if you’re being pressured into an annual contract for 2025 as the market is at an all time high. We believe securing partial coverage and waiting out the supply challenges will be to your benefit. Let’s talk about cashews. Cashew markets remain firm. 1st week of October has been quite active in Vietnam and we continue to see prices increase on the raw cashew nuts.

Garrett McBride [00:27:57]:
We’ve also seen the FOB prices increase this week as well on 3 20 counts by about a dime per pound. On the organic side, processors are running out of nuts to process and prices continue to increase on these as well. Smurx is booking some contracts for customers for the first half of twenty twenty five, depending on where your needs are. Call us for more information and we’ll keep you up to date as this volatile market evolves on a daily and weekly basis. Let’s talk about sunflower. Price of the United States have risen sharply already due to the near instantaneous demand for USA sunflower kernels as east coast pork port strikes have taken shape this week. 1 of our main suppliers is already tight on domestic bakery kernels as a result of this demand. This is a market that’s going to be worth keeping an eye on.

Garrett McBride [00:28:47]:
Reach out to us as your demand becomes apparent and we’ll be able to advise you as this market evolves and what your steps should be with regard to USA Sunflower Colonels. Well, that’s about all the market information we have on the episode 14, get the scoop with Smirk’s podcast market update. Please don’t hesitate to reach out to us for solutions and supply chain advice as your needs become apparent moving out of 2024 and into

Elisa Louis [00:29:16]:

2025. Thanks a lot.

Garrett McBride [00:29:19]:
So that’s it for this episode of Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast,

Elisa Louis [00:29:23]:
where we bring you the latest market reports, insights into bulk ingredients and their origins, as well as in-depth product information. So if you have any questions, feedback, or just want a sample to taste for yourself, visit the smirks.com website or email us at what’s new at smirks dotcom. Never miss a future episode. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks so much for tuning in.

The post Transcript: Fall Harvest Market Report & Recommendations appeared first on Bulk Ingredient Network.

Hey there. Welcome to get

Garrett McBride [00:00:10]:

the scoop with Smirk’s podcast where bulk ingredient conversation happens. We’re sharing our knowledge and expertise as bulk ingredient importers, tapping into the latest trends we are seeing and commenting on what that means for natural food businesses as they approach ingredient purchasing, product development, and marketing. You’ll hear the latest market reports, ingredient specifications, and product applications from Smirk’s in house experts, as well as origin stories from our growers and processors around the world. Listen in for the scoop on what’s happening with bulk ingredients.

Jessica Warden [00:00:49]:

Welcome back to get the scoop with Smirk’s podcast. My name is Jessica Wharton, and here with me is my colleague Zach Schwint. Smirk’s is not only organic and conventional suppliers of bulk bakery ingredients, but we’re big fans of baked goods as well. The bakery industry is massive. The global bakery products market size was valued at 457,400,000,000 in 2023 and is projected to grow to almost $731,700,000,000 by 2032 according to Fortune Business Insights. And if we look at the bakery industry in the US, according to the American Bakers Association, it was valued at 533,200,000,000 in total economic output. That’s roughly 2.01% of the GDP in 2023. Also, in 2023, bakers, product distributors, importers, and retailers directly or indirectly supported almost 2,200,000 American jobs.

Zach Schwindt [00:01:48]:

Wow, Jessica. That’s a whole lot of cannolis. Cereal. Is not only a huge category, but it’s incredibly diverse as well. And ever since you and I worked at the Smirk’s booth at the IDBBA show in Houston back in June, that we’ve been more fired up about bakery products and digging into the trends than ever before. That’s what kick started our official Smirk’s top 10 countdown of the best bakery trends in 2,024.

Jessica Warden [00:02:14]:

You couldn’t hold me back even if you tried, Zach. We’ve been exhibiting a lot this year between Expo West and IFT and Fancy Food and ITDBA. We’ve seen a ton of interesting product ideas and ingredients being used in all corners of the bakery category. So it’s only fitting that you and I start our Smirk’s top 10 best bakery trend countdown for 2024. Kick us off, Zach.

Zach Schwindt [00:02:41]:

You got it, Jessica. Number 10 is one that I personally love, and that is vanilla being used as a staple ingredient in baked goods. Vanilla is not only a popular flavor, but it’s a flavor that evokes nostalgia. Nostalgia is comforting and brings us back home or back to our childhood memories then a lot of people gravitate towards vanilla for that reason. It’s very comfortable and familiar. There’s also a level of elegance to vanilla, specifically with natural vanilla, but it’s still approachable and can be used by anyone. Vanilla is a key ingredient in many desserts such as cakes, you know, cake frostings, cream boule, ice creams, you name it. You know at Smirk’s, we have 3 different categories of vanilla and the first would be vanilla liquids.

Zach Schwindt [00:03:27]:

So in the liquid category, we have vanilla extracts. We have single fold, double fold, which is twice as concentrated as single, all the way up to 10 fold. We also have a non alcoholic vanilla flavorings for those who don’t want, you know, alcohol in in their formulas. 2nd on the list would be vanilla powder. So this would be ground vanilla bean. That’s it’s basically turned into powder format. So it’s great for ice creams. You could put the little specs in there and Sure.

Zach Schwindt [00:03:55]:

Granolas as well. It’s a pure vanilla format. So a lot of, you know, natural companies like the ground vanilla bean as an option. And then you have as a third category, you have whole vanilla beans. And then these are used, you know, for obviously manufacturing vanilla extract or paste or powder, but they’re also used by professional chefs and bakers who open up the vanilla pod and scrape out what’s called vanilla caviar out of the inside. Yeah. So by the way, you could check out episode number 9 of the Get the Scoops with Smirk’s podcast to dig deeper into our vanilla origins, applications, and different vanilla trends. Jessica, number 9.

Jessica Warden [00:04:34]:

Thanks for sharing that information on vanilla, Zach. I would definitely agree with you on the nostalgic piece. I know when I was a kid, my favorite part of making cookies with my mom was right when the butter, the sugar, and the vanilla went in the bowl, and that was when I would try to stick my finger in it and then get yelled at. So that’s my, childhood memory, but it is definitely one of my favorite things to use in baking. I’m very intrigued by this vanilla caviar. Never seen that before.

Zach Schwindt [00:05:05]:

Yes. You’ll have to do some experimenting.

Jessica Warden [00:05:08]:

Yes. Or I’ll have to, you know, bribe you into bringing me some vanilla caviar one day.

Zach Schwindt [00:05:13]:

Easy. Done.

Jessica Warden [00:05:16]:

Alright. Well, the number next on our countdown list is one that’s really intriguing to me personally, not because I know a lot about it or an expert by any means, but simply just because I think it’s fascinating. It’s 3 d printing and how it’s being integrated into baking now. As many of our listeners might know, 3 d printing technology is making waves across a lot of different industries, and bakeries are no exception. I think one thing that is attracting 3 d printing to this category specifically is it allows bakers and whether you’re a home baker or a commercial baker, industrial baker, to create intricate and customized designs that were previously really impossible or extremely time consuming. So now you can do things like print cake molds to cookie cutters, to making intricate chocolate sculptures. 3 d printing offers endless possibilities for creativity and efficiency in the kitchen, which leads me to my, next question, Zach, is, have you ever tried your hand at next level baking? And I’m not talking about, you know, mix out of the box, but more like you’re hoping to get the next spot on a great break show, the US edition of that.

Zach Schwindt [00:06:34]:

You know, Jessica, I, I am not a baker. I am a hard cook. I’m unorganized. It’s it’s hard for me to follow a recipe, but I do have a memory of myself. I made a cake for my sister for her birthday with my vanilla, and it was basic. It was white. I didn’t put any designs on it. I just put candles.

Zach Schwindt [00:06:54]:

And so, honestly, no one could have messed it up. So to answer your question, no. I’ve never done anything too complicated, but I’m curious to know how 3 d printing can help me do that.

Jessica Warden [00:07:05]:

Yeah. That’s what’s, I think, really exciting about this is anybody I feel like at various skill levels, obviously, you need access to it, but some of the practical applications of this is where you can create custom cookie cutters or custom fondant molds that can take your amateur baking to the next level. But it also is jumping to the next level, on the industrial scale in that there are companies that are actually using it to print actual food items. Have you seen this at all?

Zach Schwindt [00:07:35]:

I actually haven’t. Sounds fascinating.

Garrett McBride [00:07:38]:

Yeah. I’d love

Zach Schwindt [00:07:39]:

to be able to print myself some new

Jessica Warden [00:07:40]:

companies oh, yeah. Exactly. Right? Like, where you’re just like, that cheeseburger looks good. You know? Control print.

Garrett McBride [00:07:47]:

Exactly. Yeah.

Jessica Warden [00:07:49]:

So there’s companies like Foodini and Chefjet that are pioneering in this space. Foodini has been cited, for instance, to print a variety of foods using fresh ingredients. So I’d imagine their printer cartridges don’t come in the mail from HP. They must be crafted in some kitchen somewhere. But it’s making it possible to create complex designs with ease. And then there’s some bakeries that are specializing in printing sweets and chocolates, really allowing the intricate sugar sculptures and detailed chocolate decorations. But as we kinda highlight some of that, you might be hearing the same thing I’m hearing, but in the back of the head our my head is our QA team just being like, but what about food safety? And so that piece will be, I think, the piece that needs to continue to evolve. How would these 3 d printers on an industrial commercial making scale? How will we make sure that they’re going to continue to be safe? I’m sure it’ll be much like all of the industrial food equipment processing that we’re already seeing, but it’ll certainly have to be kind of integrated into that.

Jessica Warden [00:08:50]:

So do you have any brands that you’re working with now, or have you seen it on a, you know, consumer level where people are doing this that you’re watching?

Zach Schwindt [00:08:58]:

Yeah. I’ve seen some 3 d printing, you know, and with I did IDBA show that we had went to, but I don’t have any brands per se I’m not sure. That are actively, you know, involved in doing this. But I think there’s a lot of room for growth. I think a lot of companies are gonna wanna use this to just create more efficiency. So

Jessica Warden [00:09:16]:

Right. Right. And I think that’s what’s really exciting is that 3 d printing is really gonna touch on the sustainability piece where minimizing access ingredients and making sure every little bit is utilized and utilized effectively. It’s a lot like what GPS has done for farming practices. It’s you know, this will kind of do for some of the food industry, you know, the the precision of some of the different things. So that’s me for my very novice level of of baking. You know, I think I’m right there with you with the bland vanilla cake, but I’m excited to see what what will come out of it. So Awesome.

Jessica Warden [00:09:49]:

That’ll wrap up item number 9. So, Zach, why don’t you take us into what we’re seeing on number 8?

Zach Schwindt [00:09:58]:

Gladly. So number 8, we have sugar reduction and alternative sweeteners. Low sugar claims have been more prominent I think now than ever. But even if a company is a promoting say a keto, you know, if they’re not promoting keto, it’s at least low sugar that’s that people are wanting more, you know.

Jessica Warden [00:10:16]:

Right.

Zach Schwindt [00:10:16]:

People want less carbs and overall less sugar. So some sugar alternatives that are incrementally more healthy include, you know, coconut sugar, date sugar, maple syrup, and different products like coconut nectar and monk fruit.

Jessica Warden [00:10:34]:

Right.

Zach Schwindt [00:10:34]:

So coconut sugar, it’s a great product. We import a lot of coconut sugar here at Smirk’s. There’s multiple mesh sizes so there’s really fine grade coconut sugar that some bakeries really like. There’s also the standard granulation, more of a 16 or 18 mesh size. But coconut sugar is, you know, widely used throughout the bakery industry in the US and we see a lot of continued growth in that ingredient. Date sugar is 1. That’s a single source of sweetness. A lot of companies are starting to use dates for not only just for the fiber and whatnot, but the sweetness.

Zach Schwindt [00:11:13]:

You know, they wanna sweeten their products whether it’s a beverage or an ice cream. We’ve seen it a lot in in the dairies industry as well where they’re using dates to sweeten their products. And that that’s a trend that I definitely can see continuing.

Jessica Warden [00:11:28]:

Right. And you see the cleaner label with that kind of like you mentioned with the single ingredient source where it just really cleans up labeling. I know, you know, to your point, as my kids are starting to grow and we’re learning about nutrition and all the different things that I show them, we’ll we’ll look at nutritional labels, and I’ll point out to them how much added sugar something has, and we’ll pick different alternatives based on some of that. So

Zach Schwindt [00:11:50]:

Right.

Jessica Warden [00:11:51]:

And that’s, like, again, just me at kind of a a very novice level of that. So I know from r and d and development, we’re seeing a lot of brands that really drive that way where they want cleaner labels, better

Zach Schwindt [00:12:03]:

Exactly.

Jessica Warden [00:12:04]:

Macros and and micronutrients on their labels and

Zach Schwindt [00:12:07]:

Yeah. Sugar. Seed. Yeah. Date sugar and coconut sugar definitely check a lot of boxes for people. Yeah. For example, coconut nectar. You know, it’s a liquid sweetener.

Zach Schwindt [00:12:16]:

Great for

Jessica Warden [00:12:17]:

Yeah.

Zach Schwindt [00:12:17]:

Different frostings, you know, adds moisture to products as well. We’ve seen some chocolate companies use it. Some companies who are who are developing beverages, coconut nectar has been a great option for them. So I definitely see some continued use in coconut nectar in the US for sure. And that brings me to maple sugar and syrup.

Jessica Warden [00:12:39]:

Right.

Zach Schwindt [00:12:40]:

Most of that is coming from, you know, the northeast. It’s a little bit more pricey than what you’d see in the coconut or date category, but certainly has its own flavor profile and is kind of in the with vanilla where it’s a nostalgic flavor and certain people just really want that maple flavoring. So, and then of course we see products like monk fruit, which have come into the US and I’ve taken a lot of products and totally know a lot of brands have geared their entire brand around these types of sweeteners. So definitely an interesting one to to watch for sure.

Jessica Warden [00:13:16]:

Yeah. Agreed. I don’t think this is going away anytime soon, which is why it’s number 8 on our countdown. So moving on from natural sweeteners, we’ll move on to number 7 on our countdown where we cannot overlook the power of social media and how it’s impacted bakery industry. I think, overall, social media has been a driving force behind the popularity of a lot of baking trends that we wouldn’t even have enough time to go over in in a probably a week long podcast if we tried. So but even like myself, I’m pretty social media versed, but I fully understand how the visual nature of the platforms, like Instagram and TikTok and Pinterest, combined with, like, how quickly you can share recipes and how quickly you can share experiences, have made it much easier for these trends to gain widespread attention and enthusiasm. So in our industry, we’re seeing that a lot of Gen z consumers are adopting some of these, you know, mash up combinations and flavors and unique flavors where they first see them on and or experiencing them on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube. And so one example that I am not sure you’re familiar with, but I wanted to ask you, Zach, is the cronut.

Jessica Warden [00:14:30]:

Tell me what you know about the crone

Zach Schwindt [00:14:33]:

Ah, cronut. I don’t know if I’m familiar with such cronut you speak of here, Jessica. What is it?

Jessica Warden [00:14:40]:

Well, seems like you live under social media rock like myself. So I will tell you the you know, what I figured out was, so the cronut is a mash up of a croissant and a doughnut. And so it’s been around the New York bakery scene since 2013. But what is really kind of pushed it along where I guess made it, you know, cemented it as a cultural phenomenon really has been social media. So there’s been numerous outlets that spark discussions around these trends and really created this novelty in the culinary world to the point where a lot of people have made it a bucket list item. So you don’t know about it. You didn’t know about it before now, Zach, but now you’ve got to add it to your bucket list. Next time you have the possibility, you gotta hit it up and try out the Kronos.

Zach Schwindt [00:15:28]:

It is high on the list.

Jessica Warden [00:15:30]:

Yes. Yes. Exactly. And then the editing I’ve noticed about social media and how it can really drive trends in bakery and really in the culinary world in general is this idea of experiential sharing. So it’s kinda like that bucket list thing. You go, you eat it, you try it, you take a picture of it, and you share it with your friends. And right away, you wanna know you want everybody to know you tried it, and you also want them to comment and like. And so, yeah, that brings me to my next exact polling question is, what is the best thing you’ve ever tried and couldn’t wait to share on social media?

Zach Schwindt [00:16:04]:

No. It’s not in the bakery category, Jessica, but, at the farmers market on South Pearl Street, which I go to in Denver, they have a rattlesnake hot dog. Oh, that’s all over. You know, we saw it first on a Denver Denver platform, Denver for farmers market on Instagram. And and, I, you know, actually didn’t plan on buying it. But once I saw it, I got conned into buying it and actually wasn’t too bad. So Nice.

Jessica Warden [00:16:31]:

Nice. How many likes did your post get?

Zach Schwindt [00:16:34]:

I didn’t quite catch. I’ll have to go back and tally those up one by 1.

Jessica Warden [00:16:38]:

Isn’t that isn’t that the point of it is if it’s All about likes.

Zach Schwindt [00:16:42]:

Right? Yep.

Jessica Warden [00:16:43]:

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Well, besides, you know, the corona, there’s lots of different mashup flavors. And the other thing that I’m interested to kinda watch is how social media continues to drive the different bakery subscriptions. I, myself, was a beneficiary of a, dope subscription for my birthday, which is cookie dough that my sister sent me. And so it was just one of those fun things where it was a special day for me and we’re otherwise apart, and so we were able to share in that.

Jessica Warden [00:17:11]:

And and so I see that where social media will probably continue to drive certain things like that. So I’m at mentoring to see how that continues to push along our, you know, trend number 7. But wrapping that one up there, Zach, why don’t you take us right into countdown item number 6?

Zach Schwindt [00:17:30]:

Gladly. Here we have number 6, gluten free bakery items. So in 2,023, gluten free bakery market was valued at nearly $6,600,000,000 according to Global Market Insights. And this trend centers around awareness about gluten related health conditions such as celiac disease and gluten sensitivity. There’s also a group of people such as myself who choose to eat more gluten free products for general health reasons or just because they live with a person that has a gluten allergy. So for example, I went to a pizza restaurant before where for an extra $2 you can upgrade to chickpea crust or chickpea flour, you know, basically a gluten free option. And I’ve always been intrigued. Is it chickpeas? Sorry?

Jessica Warden [00:18:14]:

What what does it taste like? Can you tell the difference? Like, what does it what’s the To

Zach Schwindt [00:18:17]:

be honest, I can’t really taste the difference. I’m not the most zoned in on on my flavor and and whatnot, but I really can’t I really can’t taste the difference. So gluten free flours are usually a combination of starches and powders that are used to produce breads, cookies, cakes, muffins, and savory crackers. First off, we have almond flour. You know, it’s a common product produced, you know, from almonds, you know, it’s blanched almond flour, natural almond flour. So a lot of cracker companies have used almond flour for high protein content. It’s a very clean product. A lot of people really enjoy having that extra protein boost in their baked goods.

Zach Schwindt [00:19:02]:

Right. Coconut flour is another one. You know, at Smirk’s, we work with quite a lot of coconut flour. It’s definitely got a more coconut taste to it, but you if you’re putting it with other ingredients, there’s really not it’s not overpowering by any means. It’s quite affordable in comparison to some of the other nut flours as well. Jessica, have you ever had an experience with customers using coconut flour for any baked goods or breads or anything like that?

Jessica Warden [00:19:27]:

Yeah. Actually, when I first was starting at Smarts, I worked with an account that used it very heavily in a keto mix. And so that was kind of one of my first items that I really enjoyed working with at Smarts because I I actually got some traction with it, and I started to learn about it. So that one that one is really a staple for me in my own portfolio, but also just like you mentioned across the board, we work with a lot of brands that utilize coconut flour.

Zach Schwindt [00:19:50]:

Right. And a lot of people also like the higher fat content of coconut flour as well. Yes. We also have pulse flours. For example, chickpea. It’s gained a lot of momentum in the US. We’ve seen companies producing cereals with it, extruding with it. We have companies who are, like I mentioned, using it with pizza crust.

Zach Schwindt [00:20:11]:

I think chickpea flour is one that we see gaining a ton of momentum over the next few years.

Jessica Warden [00:20:17]:

Agreed.

Zach Schwindt [00:20:18]:

And then oat, you know, oat oat flour is one that really isn’t gluten free by nature, but there is a gluten free option. Sure. There’s both gluten free and non gluten free on the oat category. Typically, it’s a lot lower on the cost side than some of your nut flours and whatnot.

Jessica Warden [00:20:36]:

Right.

Zach Schwindt [00:20:37]:

And then it does have a pretty nice flavor as well, a nice nutty flavor that goes well with a lot of baked goods. And then next on the list, we have tigernut flour. That’s kind of a new one that, you know, in the US, we’re seeing a lot of companies using tigernut flour for benefits for low glycemic. Some companies use it for horchata as well. It’s actually the original base for horchata. So Yeah. Cassava starch is another interesting one. It’s kinda goes with potato starch and arrow root powder as well.

Zach Schwindt [00:21:12]:

Ube powder is a newer one that we’re seeing. It’s basically a purple sweet potato. Some companies are using it for you know, that adds a purple color to some of the recipes.

Jessica Warden [00:21:22]:

And Right.

Zach Schwindt [00:21:23]:

In the bakery category, I think that’s kind of a trendy thing. Having a unique color is cool. So

Jessica Warden [00:21:30]:

Yeah. We’re starting to see a lot of the exotic flavors, exotic trends. So that’s where you mentioned, like, tigernut flower and ube powder. Some of those are really picking up steam. And and then like you said, chickpea is one I’m seeing a lot of, which I think we’ll kinda touch on a little bit later in one of our other items. But because of its potential on protein content as well, it kind of ranks a little higher than some of those kinda like you mentioned with some of our competitors. So Yep. Yeah.

Zach Schwindt [00:21:55]:

Well, number 5.

Jessica Warden [00:21:57]:

Yeah. Number 5. Wrapping on number 6. I am right and we’re halfway there. And so next, we are gonna be diving into a topic that is really been rising faster than our favorite sourdough, functional foods, and how they’re appearing more and more in the bakery world. Zach, what do you think of when you hear functional foods?

Zach Schwindt [00:22:19]:

What comes to my mind is you eat a functional food for a benefit other than just the basic nutrition. For example, if you eat collagen, you’re probably wanting stronger nails and, thicker hair. And a lot of people also use, you know, gut health is a huge trend right now. And when I think functional foods, I think that’s one that that comes top of mind.

Jessica Warden [00:22:44]:

Well, if we were riding around in the old cash cab, you would definitely have won money in that one, Zach. You got it right you know, hit it right on the nose. Essentially, gut health is really one of the things that comes top of mind when consumers think of functional foods. There’s this growing emphasis on health and wellness, and bakers are incorporating gut friendly ingredients into their, you know, creations. So we’ve seen it for several years in the natural food industry, but, you know, even as recently as Expo West from this year, our team you know, I think we noted in our Expo West wrap up that we’re really starting to see more and more of that. A lot of recipes are, you know, notably shifting and incorporating those ingredients that specifically support gut health. So things like ancient grains, quinoa, spelt, teff are being used more frequently because they’re both high in fiber and prebiotics. And so that obviously nourishes that beneficial gut bacteria.

Jessica Warden [00:23:41]:

The other thing that we’re seeing is fermented products, such as sourdough, you know, have been gaining in popularity, and a lot of this is due to the improved digestibility and nutritional benefits. But fermentation also can enhance flavor and texture of the, you know, item that it’s in. So I’m not sure if you knew this, fun fact, Zach, but the natural fermentation process helps break down gluten and other hard to digest components. So that makes it great for breads or excuse me. That’s why fermented options are great for for those with sensitive guts. And it kinda ties back to what you were saying with the gluten free types of transversing. So this is a way to kind of have your bread and eat it too. Have your gluten and eat it too is is adding some of these other things in there.

Zach Schwindt [00:24:26]:

No. That’s great info. So that’s something I didn’t know. Yeah.

Jessica Warden [00:24:31]:

Beyond, you know, prebiotics, we’re also seeing a rise of use in probiotics in baking, which basically live bacteria that provide numerous health benefits, again, for that digestive system. And so one of those things, it’s kind of interesting where we’re seeing typically, when you’re baking high temperature, things are what can kill the beneficial bacteria. So we’re actually seeing innovations and techniques such as low temperature baking and adding probiotics after the baking process are really being its work so that we can continue to see this trend grow and basically let these bacteria survive and thrive. And so the interesting question that, you know, we can really ponder is why? You know, Zach, why do you think this trend continues to permeate natural foods world?

Zach Schwindt [00:25:17]:

Yeah. I think people more now than ever, they wanna feel at their best. You know, people want to they wanna have a clear mind. They don’t wanna have they don’t wanna feel bloated as they’re walking around all day. People wanna be performing at their highest level. It’s like the old saying, you know, food is medicine. I think people are starting to realize that the more emphasis you have in the food you eat, the better the ingredients that are going into your food, better you’re gonna feel and overall, the better you’re gonna perform. So that’s kinda my thoughts surrounding the whole thing.

Zach Schwindt [00:25:45]:

But

Jessica Warden [00:25:45]:

Sure. Well, there’s another $100 from the cash cab, so

Zach Schwindt [00:25:49]:

it’s a good job. Lucky day.

Jessica Warden [00:25:50]:

Yeah. Exactly. No. I think you’re right. Basically, that’s what’s being written on and the trends and the summations of all of the research that’s going into this is exactly what you just said. Consumer awareness and people kind of doing everything that you just said is the driving force behind those trends. So I don’t think it’s going away anytime soon. And so for our listeners, some practical applications that, you know, we can see as a direct relation of how smarts can help is we work with Ancient Greens, and we often have quinoa and teff in the warehouse ready to go so we can help with samples, r and d, bench top development, that kind of thing.

Jessica Warden [00:26:28]:

There’s probiotic powders out there that can be mixed into doughs or used in toppings. And like Zach already mentioned, in natural sweetener topic is opting for those natural sweeteners like coconut, sugar, or date powder, or even maple sugar can help with the gut compared to what the refined sugars could do to the digestive system. So as we start to see the intersection of gut health and baking, there’s some really cool opportunities out there for both bakers and consumers. So we’re really excited that it’s part of the trends, but that’ll wrap up our, you know, halfway point on the countdown, and Zach will take us right into number 4.

Zach Schwindt [00:27:08]:

Thank you, Jessica. Number 4, we have seeds and seed flowers. Originally, we just had seeds and and we decided to add seed flowers as well because, really, I think, we’re seeing, you know, in the bakery category, seeds are used not only a top of baked goods, but also as a core ingredient inside of the baked good.

Jessica Warden [00:27:27]:

Right.

Zach Schwindt [00:27:28]:

Not only are they a gluten free replacement for traditional flours, but they’re known to be, you know, a source of fiber, protein, and they’re also high in minerals. Not to mention that seeds are are typically allergen free as well, you know, excluding maybe sesame. Sure. You know, so big seed items would for smirks would be, you know, flax seeds, chia seeds, pumpkin seeds, hemp seeds, and poppy seeds. And these would go into crackers, muffins, cereal bars, granola bars, you name it. And the flax category, you know, there’s brown and golden flax. They come, you know, and and milled in whole formats. So, it’s one that you can purchase in a powder format or you can purchase as a whole seed and sprinkle on the top of your bread.

Zach Schwindt [00:28:16]:

And same with chia really. Chia comes as a powder. It can also be added in into granolas or cereal bars. I think it’s really common in different, smoothie bowls and that type of thing.

Jessica Warden [00:28:29]:

Right.

Zach Schwindt [00:28:30]:

Pumpkin seeds is one where, you know, you have different types of pumpkin seeds depending on where they come from, different grades. You have like the dark green Styrian pumpkin seeds that come from Europe. And then you have the more shine skin, the smaller green seeds coming from China and Mexico, but those are definitely a staple in the bakery category. And hemp seeds, you know, hemp seeds is one that, you know, it’s coming from all different corners of the world. It’s really high of protein as well. It’s got really healthy fats, and it’s definitely a popular ingredient in different breads and whatnot. And then poppy. Poppy is, obviously, when I think of poppy, I think of, like, lemon, you know, lemons the poppy seed muffins and whatnot.

Zach Schwindt [00:29:15]:

Yeah. Yeah. So those are typically not in milk format, but we do see those pop up a lot, you know, in the seed category. So

Jessica Warden [00:29:24]:

Yeah. I would say one thing to even know, with seeds that’s interesting as it can relate to the baking category is a lot of seeds are pressed for oil. And so the resulting cake or resulting byproduct actually has a very high protein content and has a very fine mesh. So it can work really great in baking applications and is sometimes overlooked because for the longest time, it was simply a byproduct of the oil pressing process. So in addition to maybe the whole seed being milled into a flour, some of our customers have found the benefits of this higher protein, lower fat flour that comes from some of these seeds. Yeah. Something to think about when you’re formulating for sure.

Zach Schwindt [00:30:07]:

Yeah. Great point.

Jessica Warden [00:30:09]:

Well, I guess that’ll take us right into countdown item number 3, which actually I segued very perfectly is high protein baking items, you know, from our fat pressed out of our seeds, high protein content flours. We start to see consumers are really looking to boost their protein intake. So we’ve started to see a lot of interest in our customers, our manufacturers looking for something that prioritizes that protein content. So whether it’s for dietary preferences, whether it’s, you know, to be that more functional ingredient, we’re starting to see high protein options becoming staples. And kinda when you think high protein, maybe 5 to 10 years ago, there was a handful of protein sources that were used to really inflate protein content that sometimes maybe left a bitter taste or had a weird texture. And so I think in recent years and in the trends that we’ve seen at some of the natural food shows we attend is that you’re starting to see some innovation around how to mask some of that flavor that, you know, maybe isn’t as desirable. We’re starting to see new protein like chickpea coming online. And so just overall, we’re starting to see how this can basically, the net carbs where it’s the higher fiber, higher protein, and then lower net carbs is really what what’s driving this trend.

Jessica Warden [00:31:31]:

So I think, Zach, just kind of on that line, I’m sure you can recount a time when you ate some high protein item and, it maybe left you some little bit of weird mouth feeling or weird taste. What’s the time when you experienced that? And everybody’s probably noticed that.

Zach Schwindt [00:31:47]:

Yeah. I mean, other than the rattlesnake hotdog I had mentioned earlier, probably a pea protein milkshake that I had tried at, I think, at my first Expo East in Philadelphia. There was a brand that was exhibiting a pea protein. And for whatever reason, I don’t think they put any sort of sweetener or something in it. It was very tough to swallow and look at the guy with a straight face and tell him it was delicious. So Right. Right.

Jessica Warden [00:32:12]:

Whatever you do, don’t name names. That’s yeah. But well and that’s that’s the I mean, even that’s such a good point. So that was probably expo 3 to 4 years ago, and now there’s so many products out there where you can go up and you can taste these products, and it is such a different you know, where they were at 3 to 5 years ago to where we’re at now. So a lot of that we’re seeing, you know, driven, obviously, plant protein is a piece that’s not going away. We’ve continued to see it in baked goods. We’ve so like you mentioned, even when folks aren’t necessarily only, you know, needing plant protein or excluding milk protein from their diet, they’re still wanting those options. And so that’s one of those things where it’s appealing to vegan and vegetarian consumers, but also just any consumers.

Jessica Warden [00:33:00]:

So Mhmm. It’s been really interesting to kinda see how that goes. I think one thing we can highlight is the versatility of high protein baked goods. Basically, if you’re, you know, having that protein packed bread or a muffin or cookie, it helps you maybe feel better about what you’re eating when you’re eating a muffin, but it’s a protein muffin. Maybe that as a consumer, you’re like, yes. I Yeah. We got my protein intake for the day. So I don’t know what that means for the future of baking, but I think the high protein trend is more than a passing fad where consumers kinda continue to prioritize health and nutrition both.

Jessica Warden [00:33:35]:

What do you think, Zach? Do you think we’ll continue to see more of this?

Zach Schwindt [00:33:39]:

Yeah. I don’t think protein is going anywhere. Yeah. I think it’s here to stay. People feel better when they eat a higher protein level, cleaner proteins. I think the protein space in general is just continuously evolving. And one other space that I think is continuously evolving and brings me to number 2 is plant based and vegan alternatives.

Jessica Warden [00:33:59]:

Yes, definitely.

Zach Schwindt [00:34:01]:

1st, we have the alternative milks. So we have coconut milk, coconut cream, which are kind of used interchangeably and coconut milk usually refers to a lower fat content. Coconut cream usually refers to a higher fat content. But coconut is a fantastic substitute to traditional dairy to, you know, achieve a more creamy consistency or mouthfeel in a beverage or even a cream inside of a a doughnut or yeah, exactly. A dessert. Coconut milk powder is another one that a lot of people prefer to customize the level of creaminess and whatnot. So this allows them to kind of

Garrett McBride [00:34:39]:

Right.

Jessica Warden [00:34:40]:

You know,

Zach Schwindt [00:34:40]:

you mix it with water and you’re able to throw another liquid and you’re able to totally customize your your mouth feel and whatnot.

Jessica Warden [00:34:48]:

Right.

Zach Schwindt [00:34:49]:

Oat milk is one that I think is popping off, and I see a lot of movement on. And it’s really interesting because oats you know, the oat flour, you know, you can’t really make milk from the flour, it has to be further processed. And some of our our customers are actually they buy the flour and will produce these plant based alternatives from the input material that Smurx provides.

Jessica Warden [00:35:14]:

That’s awesome.

Zach Schwindt [00:35:15]:

So it’s kind of interesting to see everything kind of work full circle. But many of the other alternative milks that we see are almond milk, hemp milk, macadamia milk, barley milk, and soy milk. Any other types of milks or alternatives that come to your mind, Jessica?

Jessica Warden [00:35:31]:

You know, I don’t think so. One of my favorite things actually is the the coconut milk powder. We use it. It’s a staple in our pantry here and mainly because it we use it, you know, as a way to sweeten things rather than using even, like, a it’s almost like I could use it as a powdered sugar alternative Right. On some types of applications. So my kids love the taste of it for that part of it, and then I love the taste of it in certain baking applications. So that one’s one we key in on. And outside of that, I think coconut is just in general one of my favorite flavor profiles, so I kind of lean towards that.

Jessica Warden [00:36:07]:

And outside of, you know, the oat and almond. I guess sunflower sunflower is one that is maybe not on those list. I’ve started to see that.

Zach Schwindt [00:36:15]:

Yeah. We have started to see some sunflower milk. I did see a sunflower milk brand. Yes.

Jessica Warden [00:36:19]:

And it’s very yeah. It’s really interesting. And so it’s just really cool to see the innovation in this space. And I think, again, we’ve touched on the fact that a lot of these things aren’t going anywhere because consumers are genuinely adopting them for the long term, it seems like.

Zach Schwindt [00:36:34]:

Right. And I think that brings us to number 1.

Jessica Warden [00:36:38]:

Oh, no. Number 1, drop roll. So that actually we we figured we’d wrap this all up with more of an idea than an item, but it’s just touching base on sustainability, upside equal ingredients, and regenerative organic because those are some of the things that I think really thread the needle through all of the different topics we talked about. For whatever reason, those pieces are pretty much prevalent across items 10 through 2, and so here we go. It’s one that’s transforming the way that we think about food production and consumption, sustainability, upcycled ingredients, and regenerative organic practices aren’t going anywhere. Our industry is really it’s safe to say we’re undergoing a significant shift towards these topics. And, basically, it seems like it’s surrounded around increased consumer awareness about different environmental issues, about growing practices, about processing practices, and just manufacturers and CPG brands based off of what their customers are are asking them for are being called to rethink how they source ingredients and the production methods that are used and the reforestation practices and harvesting practices. So right now, it’s a really exciting time, I think, to be a part of this industry.

Jessica Warden [00:37:56]:

Zach, would you agree that we’re seeing a lot of this around and kind of what we’re

Zach Schwindt [00:38:01]:

Yeah. I mean, I I think that a lot of the, you know, the manufacturers that are moving towards more sustainability and a more sustainable practice, I don’t think they’re just doing it for no reason. I think it’s because consumers are asking them to be more sustainable and they’re listening and consumers are willing to pay a little bit more for more sustainable ingredients, for more sustainable packaging.

Jessica Warden [00:38:23]:

Right.

Zach Schwindt [00:38:23]:

From my own personal perspective, you know, if I have to pay an extra few cents for a little bit better packaging sometime, you know, I’m willing to do that most of the time. So Right.

Jessica Warden [00:38:32]:

Right.

Zach Schwindt [00:38:33]:

Yeah. I think sustainability sources, you know, involves obtaining ingredients in ways that respects the environment, you know, and people both involved respects both the environment and the people involved in their production.

Jessica Warden [00:38:45]:

Right.

Zach Schwindt [00:38:46]:

This can include renewable resources, supporting fair trade practices, ensuring that farming methods do not deplete natural resources.

Jessica Warden [00:38:55]:

Yeah. I agree. And what’s really cool is it seems like regenerative ryanic really started popping up for me, personally, where I was starting to hear it and recognize it maybe 3 expos ago, and then we went back in March again and just the a growth from where it was, like, 1 or 2 boosts. You kind of heard it as floating in the air as a buzzword to this last one where it was everywhere. We saw it in so many places, especially in the organic marketplace. It was every other boost was touting these practices, which is fantastic because I think what it speaks to is is the heart of the people behind our industry and and how they’re it’s not just the consumers demand. It’s like the people that work in those processes are saying, hey. This is a great idea.

Jessica Warden [00:39:40]:

This is something that’s worth investing.

Zach Schwindt [00:39:42]:

Exactly.

Jessica Warden [00:39:44]:

So right there, sustainability really ties into this idea of upcycled ingredients. Zach, maybe you can tell us more what you think of when you hear upcycled. Would you say any of your customers are utilizing this mode of sustainability right now?

Zach Schwindt [00:39:58]:

Yeah. We do have customers, you know, at Smurx that are involved with different upcycled ingredients. And what comes to my mind when when I hear upcycled is basically an ingredient that gets almost a second chance where, you know, it’s maybe destined for the landfill at one point and someone else found a way to make it useful, then therefore, everyone wins.

Jessica Warden [00:40:19]:

So Right. Yeah. I agree. I think one of my favorite examples of it that I stumbled across as a consumer at at the grocery store was the I’m ugly brand. It’s the, you know, fruit that’s was, like you said, destined for the landfill, and somebody found a purpose for it. And it’s hilarious. And so as far as the marketing and the branding goes, it’s just really clever, I guess. Hilarious.

Zach Schwindt [00:40:41]:

Right.

Jessica Warden [00:40:41]:

Clever is the better word to use because it is it’s a great message. It’s a great purpose, and so it’s really cool to see that that’s one of many stories we’re seeing. Upcycling obviously reduces food waste, but it also provides new revenue streams for manufacturers so it can make the overall full circle piece of everything more sustainable and economically more sound while also being environmentally conscious. So it’s kinda nice that it checks so many boxes.

Zach Schwindt [00:41:11]:

Mhmm.

Jessica Warden [00:41:12]:

And then before we end and and as we wrap up and kind of thread everything together again, that ROC, I know we talked about it on one of our podcast before where we talk more generally about it. But, Zach, do you wanna remind us a little bit about what it means if something carries the ROC, or regenerative organic certification?

Zach Schwindt [00:41:31]:

Yeah. So ROC is focused on restoring and enhancing soil health, biodiversity, and the ecosystem resilience. It involves practices like crop rotation, cover cropping, reduced tillage, and holistic livestock management.

Jessica Warden [00:41:46]:

That’s certainly one of those things that we, as a company, when we have customers starting to ask for those ingredients, it’s really cool for us to be able to dig into those processes with our existing partners. So we’re going to our partners that help us with coconut already, and we’re saying, hey. We’re looking for this now, and they’re ready already with an answer. You know? They’re saying, yep. We can offer this. We have coconut sugar that already has been well stabilized under that organic certification, ROC certification. So it’s just really cool to see that it’s not this novel idea anymore. It’s really starting to kinda come to fruition with folks that we’re already working with, and then our customers are adopting it.

Jessica Warden [00:42:23]:

So if there’s any ways that Smirk’s can help you or our listeners with their brands on a project that is calling for that kind of ingredient, feel free to reach out because we’re already kinda working towards that. So I guess I would say that wraps up our Smurk’s top 10 countdown of best bakery trends in 2024. Zach, I have to say it’s been a blast. It’s fun to think about how some of these things have evolved over time since even my time at Smurk’s. But, did you have any last thoughts you wanted to add as we wrap up this segment?

Zach Schwindt [00:42:56]:

I’m just excited to see, you know, how the bakery industry continues to grow. And hopefully next year, IDDBA, we see some 3 d printers that are printing, everything under the moon.

Jessica Warden [00:43:06]:

Yeah.

Zach Schwindt [00:43:06]:

That’s really interesting to 3 d printers. So

Jessica Warden [00:43:09]:

Cool. Well, thank you so much.

Zach Schwindt [00:43:12]:

Yeah. Thank you.

Jessica Warden [00:43:13]:

Well, thanks, Zach. Stay tuned for our next segment where we dive into some of Spark’s products and service solutions where we’ve really helped our customers save money and navigate supply chain issues.

Garrett McBride [00:43:27]:

Hey, everyone. We’re here to dive into segment 2 of episode 13 of the get the scoop with Smirk’s podcast. My name is Garrett McBride, and I’m looking forward to chatting with my colleagues and friends, Jessica Warden and Zach Schwint, about some of the experiences we’ve shared at Smirk’s, supporting our customers with products that fit their needs and budgets and helping engineer supply chain solutions. In this industry, crop and market conditions can and do change quickly. Many of our customers have found themselves in situations where they’re trying to decide when to buy, how long to contract, how to deal with surging commodity prices or ocean freight rates. Here at smerks and quite frankly most aspects of my life I would characterize myself and I think my friends here would agree as being very risk averse. These cautious tendencies come from more than 2 decades of experience in the CPG world working across a multitude of categories and many functional roles. For as long as I can remember, I’ve spent the majority of my professional life managing risks, developing supply chain redundancies, and ensuring product quality all while optimizing product costs, managing operational budgets, and hitting crazy project timelines.

Garrett McBride [00:44:38]:

To our listeners out there who might have the same challenges, we hope this segment will speak to you. Hey, you guys ready to rock on this? Ready to roll.

Jessica Warden [00:44:48]:

Ready.

Garrett McBride [00:44:49]:

So let’s be real. Anyone with a couple of bucks in their bank can buy something from somebody and sell it to somebody else. That’s typically how the world of ingredient trading works. Smirk’s goal is not just to be another transactional cog in your machine. We strive to be a true partner, adding as much value as we can to help your business thrive. One way we do this is by identifying and implementing cost effective product solutions. I have a unique perspective on this topic because before joining the Smurx team, I was a Smurx customer. I’d like to think I was the most important Smurx customer, but that’s arguable.

Garrett McBride [00:45:25]:

In fact, Smurx was one of my primary ingredient suppliers for a number of years. While running ops for a high growth retail brand a few years back, Smurx actually took the time to learn enough about what we were doing in our production to be able to suggest alternate specifications for the coconut oil we were using. This suggestion helped us to significantly reduce product costs while maintaining the same high quality standards that we demanded. It’s that kind of above and beyond service and attention to detail that makes Merck stand out amongst the competition.

Zach Schwindt [00:45:57]:

That’s great insight. Thanks, Garrett. You know, the story that comes to my mind related to vanilla is when we we helped the customer transition from single fold vanilla extract to a double fold vanilla extract. And for those who don’t know, that basically means that they’re they transition to a product that’s twice as strong as the single fold in terms of the flavor. And it saved them a solid 30% by doing so. In a nutshell, the customer was using a generic vanilla extract and they knew vanilla was much more complicated category than they had originally known. And they wanted to use a little bit less liquid in their candy formula. We sent off a few samples of our double fold Madagascar extract, and they found that the product worked fantastic for them.

Zach Schwindt [00:46:43]:

And they were able to use about half of the liquid that they had been using while still getting the exact same amount of vanilla flavor that they were looking for. Specifically because they were using a product with greater strength. It’s really cool to see the project come together full circle.

Garrett McBride [00:47:00]:

Yeah. That’s a great example of how Smirk’s engineer solutions for our partners. Appreciate that example. Let’s talk contracts and contracting. For those of you not aware, Smirk’s has a team of really smart people constantly monitoring dozens of markets to provide you with the best advice possible in real time when it comes to determining when to pull the trigger and how much of a given item to contract. We have a network of contacts all over the world providing data and information about weather, growing conditions, crop conditions, and general supply and demand to help you make the most informed decisions possible. Hey, Jessica. Where do you see Smirk’s adding value to our partnerships?

Jessica Warden [00:47:42]:

That’s a great question. I think one way that we add value is kind of like you mentioned is we take a lot of pride in knowing what’s happening with the markets. It’s such a it could flip on a dime. And and it’s actually one of the things that I’ve come to appreciate about how much Snorx takes time to learn some of this stuff because, like you said, anybody can can trade, but only certain, you know, take certain person who can kinda go in there, look and see what’s happening, have the right connections at origin to really make, I guess, sense out of some of these things and really empower the decision making process at our level, but then also at our customer level. So I think a great example that comes to mind is, you know, how our team has navigated some of the ups and downs of certain markets like coconut, for example. And because of how we’re able to navigate some of those markets, we’ve been able to help customers hedge risk, and a lot of that is really driven by the diversity in our supply chain relationships. So during the pandemic, across the industry, we all saw, you know, the crazy supply chain disruptions. And for me, I was actually brand new to Smarts at the time and brand new to the industry.

Jessica Warden [00:48:53]:

And so I really came to appreciate that time as for the learning curve that I offered, where I really kind of leaned into to watching some of our management team where they focus, making sure they were communicating with customers even when we had bad news. Saw how much it made a difference. Our team was able to continue to honor contracts because we could pivot to another point of origin while still feeling comfortable with the, you know, food safety qualifications of that supply chain simply because we bend boots on the ground at some point or, you know, just had this very thorough process that made us comfortable with some of those decisions. And so now if you flash forward 4 years to today, it’s not a secret that we’ve been experiencing some of this similar supply disruptions in the coconut world that we saw kind of in 2020. So whether it’s ocean free volatility or surges in demand from other countries, shortages of raw material, Coconut has been a a tough one so far this year to navigate, but I think SMERC’s, because of the market information that we took, we really try to take a proactive approach. We saw some of those leading indicators coming into 2024 late last year and early in this year. And so our team made a point to reach out to some of our customers that we knew were heavy users of these items, and we really tried to help them make informed decisions on when it was a good time to buy and when it’s good time to just kinda cover what’s needed. And, really, we just help to be that partner so that, you know, we can get from January 2024 to December and have as minimal disruption as possible.

Jessica Warden [00:50:29]:

And so I think the last piece of the puzzle to understand is that there’s always those things that are beyond our control as an importer, and there’s always things that are out of control down the line of that supply chain. And so that’s very fortunate where our strong supply chain relationships come into play and, you know, on both sides of the coin. So we’re we’re able to source up from multiple coins origin from the same commodity. We’re able to kind of ensure some stability. But maintaining that open and honest communication with our customers, especially when it does come to some of those bad news things that are out of our control, it really helps us navigate everything together. And so even when it’s a true be on market, the different strategic planning and partnerships, we can really continue to deliver value and, in a lot of cases, savings to our customers and just really help with that full picture planning.

Garrett McBride [00:51:23]:

Yeah. I bet you got a career’s worth of of the job training just in those 2 years of COVID. It’s amazing.

Jessica Warden [00:51:29]:

They used to joke about, like, remember before COVID when you could do this and this and this? And I was just like, no. I have no, you know, idea what that’s like. And then now we’ve kinda, you know, got Days are going

Garrett McBride [00:51:38]:

on, and they’re never

Zach Schwindt [00:51:39]:

coming back.

Jessica Warden [00:51:40]:

Normalized times where it’s like, oh, this is what you guys are talking about.

Garrett McBride [00:51:44]:

Yes. Normal. Yeah. It’s Zach, what do you think? Where do you see SMERC’s adding value to our, our partners and our relationships?

Zach Schwindt [00:51:54]:

Yeah. I think, you know, when working on contracts specifically, price, quantity, you know, ingredient specification are all obviously very important pieces. But contract duration, I think, is something that often gets overlooked. For some companies, they prefer to contract January to December, covering a full calendar year. Some cover their needs quarterly. Others contract based off of different crop cycles. For example, during the months of August September, like we’re in right now, we’ll see a lot of the Northern Hemisphere crops being harvested such as sunflower seeds, flaxseeds, most grains, pumpkin seeds, various dried fruits. So at Smurx, I think one of our biggest strong points is that we’ll help you make decisions and how long, you know, to contract because obviously you want to make You want to capture cost savings when you can, but you also don’t want to run yourself short and then not have stock when you need it.

Zach Schwindt [00:52:54]:

So there’s all these different, you know, scenarios that could play out and I think our team is good at sitting down with you and kind of explaining where the market’s at. If your product, for example, contains sunflower seeds and you’re growing at a rate of whatever it is, 30% year over year, you might want to contract a little extra, stuff like that. So just being a partner in the sense of helping you make decisions that are actually going to benefit you. So

Garrett McBride [00:53:21]:

Yeah. I think it’s all about helping the customer and helping our partners navigate any challenge that might come up

Jessica Warden [00:53:27]:

Right.

Garrett McBride [00:53:28]:

You know, particularly on supply chain side. Yeah. I think you’re supply chain challenges Oh,

Zach Schwindt [00:53:33]:

sorry.

Jessica Warden [00:53:34]:

I was gonna interject with conversations relating to

Garrett McBride [00:53:37]:

Please do.

Zach Schwindt [00:53:38]:

I was

Jessica Warden [00:53:38]:

just gonna say that you hit the nail on the head when you talked about, in your example, Garrett, as a customer where Smurk took the time to understand what you were doing as a customer. I think that’s sometimes where our strengths shine through. And then just where we can even grow with customers from start to finish, from when we start working with them to, you know, as that relationship evolves, is trying to find out what you’re doing with the items, how fast you’re growing. Is there a SKU that’s contracting, getting smaller in year over year usage? What does reformulation look like when something’s really expensive 1 year and it’s not as expensive the next year? And so that’s the piece where where Smurx will is willing to sit down with you and look at that stuff and really invest the time into it instead of just take that phone call and say, oh, you need this? Sure. Here’s the price. There you go. Sales out the door. It’s, oh, you’re using this item now.

Jessica Warden [00:54:30]:

Tell me more about it. And so I think that’s where we can really shine with some of our customers.

Garrett McBride [00:54:36]:

Yeah. It’s really huge from, you know, on the branded side, the manufacturing side. So many ingredient suppliers are just that. They supply an ingredient. It’s a transaction. You know, you point a to point b, it’s done. Right. A lot of times in the manufacturing world, the branded side, we don’t know.

Garrett McBride [00:54:50]:

We don’t know if there are other options, if there are better options, if there are less costly options. It’s so helpful to have somebody who’s an expert in the field to provide us with advice and and allow us to make decisions that help to strengthen our business. Right. So that was gigantic from the customer side. Much appreciated. So when it comes to challenges, speaking of challenges, supply chain challenges are constantly popping up everywhere we look. Smirk’s works to ensure that to the best of our ability, we have redundant supply chains for all of our staple ingredients. Coconut products are a great example of that.

Garrett McBride [00:55:29]:

We keep coming back to coconut. As you can tell, that’s a strong suit here at Smerx. We import a large portfolio of coconut products including oils, desiccated coconut, coconut cream, coconut milk, coconut sugar, coconut flour, sounds like Forrest Gump here, coconut butter, coconut aminos, coconut nectar and more. There’s a ton of products that come from coconut and they call it the tree of life for a reason.

Jessica Warden [00:55:56]:

Right.

Garrett McBride [00:55:57]:

In our years of importing coconut products, we pretty much see it all. Over time, we’ve developed and expanded our supply chains to encompass numerous origins that are geographically separated from one another to provide protection when the inevitable issues pop up. We currently have reliable coconut supply chains established in the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, and Vietnam. There’s a typhoon in the Philippines, we can pivot our purchasing to Sri Lanka

Zach Schwindt [00:56:24]:

Right.

Garrett McBride [00:56:25]:

Or another origin, for example. Gigantic competitive advantage that Smurx offers over the competition. Smirk’s also encourages our customers to onboard and proactively get their quality assurance approval for multiple suppliers within our supply chain to minimize the risk and to maximize their ability to be agile. We also recommend the customers contract key ingredients whenever it makes sense to do so, not only as means of providing cost stability, but also to help keep our customers and our partners needs met even when conditions aren’t optimal.

Jessica Warden [00:57:01]:

I think that’s one of the, again, one of the places where we add value significantly over, you know, a potential other importer or trader is we take a lot of time internally when we know what our customers’ needs are across the board from everybody that we work with, which helps when we’re contracting. We don’t, you know, always have contracts, but we have a really good idea of what customers are using and how much. But when we can get that more information from our customers and when we have contracts that we know we need to meet, It helps us with planning internally to where we’re able to make very nimble, quick buying decisions in other cases where we wouldn’t be willing to take the risk or maybe another importer wouldn’t be willing to take the risk just because of what we’ve seen. So when we’re planning, there’s a lot of challenges that we kind of, like, take into account. I would say top of year, we were talking a lot about what El Nino was doing. You know, you guys can jump in and touch on that, but we did a lot of internal planning around that. And, Garrett, I think you’re pretty integral in some of that, so you might touch on that a little bit.

Garrett McBride [00:58:06]:

Yeah. This year, El Nino’s impact, that has been very noticeable from various growing regions having reduced yields on the crop side

Jessica Warden [00:58:17]:

Right.

Garrett McBride [00:58:18]:

All the way to the Panama Canal not having enough water to function properly and the need for the authorities over that canal to reduce the number of ships going through every day.

Jessica Warden [00:58:28]:

Right.

Zach Schwindt [00:58:28]:

You

Garrett McBride [00:58:28]:

know, weather has the potential to cause immeasurable impact negatively and positively and we need to be ready to act when something unforeseen like a weather event rears its ugly head. A lot of other things out of our control that we plan around using the geographic diversity of multiple supply chains, geopolitical conflicts like the war in Ukraine

Jessica Warden [00:58:53]:

Right.

Garrett McBride [00:58:53]:

Or really any other unrest in growing regions has the potential to stop shipments from any given area or any given port. And we need to be able to pivot. We need to be agile and have a backup plan for our backup plan so that these things that pop up don’t impact our our partner’s business, in a horrible way.

Jessica Warden [00:59:13]:

Yeah. I I agree. And I think it’s so interesting. Again, just I’ve only been involved in the industry for 5 years. It’s just the things that have popped up in that amount of time. It just shows that there’s it’s always going to be something. Even if you make it through one one conflict or one weather event, then by the time that that clears up, there’s another thing. So if nothing else

Zach Schwindt [00:59:35]:

Mhmm.

Jessica Warden [00:59:35]:

Having the team that we’ve put together with the QA team that we have and then, like, the pieces where we have the risk mitigation and the risk aversion folks on our team along with the people who are very optimistic. And so just having that balance of people on our team is also what makes it interesting where we navigate. It’s like the the human element, I guess, is the best thing that I’m trying to to iterate here is we have a a really fun mix of a team that as we start to kinda look at these challenges, like, oh, that’s how we were able to get through those things.

Garrett McBride [01:00:07]:

And it’s cool because we have a pretty, experienced group here at this point, especially after the last 4 years where crisis management has been like whack a mole. There’s always something. It’s just where is it gonna pop up and when, you know, between all of us and our various experience levels. We’ve seen most of these things and have, you know, a pretty good idea how to navigate the challenges.

Zach Schwindt [01:00:26]:

I

Garrett McBride [01:00:26]:

think we’re pretty well positioned to succeed.

Jessica Warden [01:00:29]:

Zach, any challenges you wanna touch on?

Zach Schwindt [01:00:32]:

I think the new organic regulations have been one that, you know, we saw a lot of brokers For sure. And whatnot that have haven’t quite adapted as fast as as we had hoped they would. Agreed. And then we actually recorded a separate podcast about that as well. But I think that was another area where we took a lot of time to educate both our customers and some of our broker partners and suppliers on meeting these new organic rules. So Yeah. Just being kind of at the forefront of the information has been key for our our team.

Garrett McBride [01:01:03]:

Yeah. Prior planning is so important. And I think that’s something we did pretty well. Definitely. To the

Jessica Warden [01:01:09]:

point where it was like that was, you know, March when that was launched, and it feels like we’ve been talking about it forever because we kinda had been. And so it it feels far away. You know? It’s only August, and it’s new new launch. But Bruce Merck sits like, oh, yeah. That’s in the rearview mirror at this point. So

Zach Schwindt [01:01:24]:

Uh-huh. Right. I mean, do you

Garrett McBride [01:01:25]:

guys think we should touch on any more of these things, or do you think we’re free?

Jessica Warden [01:01:29]:

I think we did.

Zach Schwindt [01:01:30]:

I think it’s pretty good.

Garrett McBride [01:01:33]:

Cool. We’re gonna wrap it up then. Awesome, guys. Really appreciate the input. I think it’s clear that Sperk’s goal here is to be the best partner we can possibly be and support our customers and our partners, you know, at the highest level and to really look out for the success of their business and and the opportunities that they have.

Zach Schwindt [01:01:52]:

I

Garrett McBride [01:01:52]:

wanna thank you all so much for tuning in to episode number 13 of get the scoop with Smercs podcast. Please continue listening to catch our market report for August 2024. Hey there. Welcome to the August 2024 Smirk’s market report. I’m Garrett McBride. I’m filling in for Donnie this month so bear with me. Let’s jump right into ocean freight. We believe right now in August 2024, we are in the middle of the worst of the ocean freight issues from Asia.

Garrett McBride [01:02:22]:

We’ve seen some slight price decreases coming from Asia and that’s encouraging. However, the prices are still way too high. Additionally, I’d like to call out that South America is now catching up. Rates out of South America into the east and west coast of the United States have increased and are are firming slightly. One last thing to call out in Paraguay, the river is low, so this is causing late shipments from that origin. This tends to happen around this time every year, just something we watch and deal with. As far as ingredient markets, let’s start with sunflower. We continue to monitor the extreme heat and the damage it has caused in Eastern Europe.

Garrett McBride [01:03:00]:

All origins are reporting issues with the new crop because of the heat and Bulgaria in particular has been hit very hard. They anticipate 30% less from their new crop than they did a month ago. In the USA, demand has increased as people look to cover while Bulgarian suppliers are off the market. The USA Colonel crop planting was 30% lower than last year as well. We encourage customers to start looking now for their new crop contracts as this could continue to firm up this year. Pumpkin. All reports in China are that we’ll have a large, nice crop. Prices have started to soften from where they were earlier this year as people wait for the new crop to come out.

Garrett McBride [01:03:41]:

In the last few years, booking new crop contracts at the end of August has proven to be a great time and we think this year will be a great time as well. We can start to quote new Shine Skin contracts any day and we are already closing Snow White contracts with several customers. Coconut. The Philippines experienced an early typhoon which added pressure to the market. Most major shippers are still 6 to 8 weeks behind on current shipments and it has been hard to get bookings once containers are ready to ship. The general feeling across the coconut globe is that the market will remain firm with pressure to increase. Most packers are sold out for 2024 already and will introduce pricing for q 1 2025 in the coming weeks. There’s a global shortage of raw material still and we think it’s going to be a while before it catches up.

Garrett McBride [01:04:31]:

Additionally, we are going into the main time of year for typhoons in the Philippines. It is recommended to look at coverage well into 2025 if you can get offers. Smirk can offer for deliveries through June of 2025 right now. Moving along to coconut sugar. The farm gate price for sugar has increased by 30% this year in Indonesia. Processors are having trouble getting NOP certified product that can ship to the USA, and they continue to fight each other at origin for the raw materials, which is driving up costs. Packers are now only looking to offer shipments in November forward and are not sure what pricing to use yet as they don’t know what the price will be at the farm level. It’s important to note that Ramadan begins earlier this year, that being the end of February.

Garrett McBride [01:05:15]:

We may be in the same situation for a while as we don’t know if processors will be able to load up on their current stocks enough to get through Ramadan and to have enough product in process once Ramadan is over. This is definitely an ingredient we want to watch closely for the next couple of months. New crop chia is not coming in as fast or with as good quality as people had hoped for. The market is starting to rise in South America and some packers are staying off the market until they have a better idea of what they’re going to have to offer. We think you should look at getting some of your contracts on the books now, if not all of them. Prices are still pretty favorable compared to past years. We’re also watching the ocean freight from this region. Mango.

Garrett McBride [01:05:59]:

As Mexico had a short crop and other origins were affected by El Nino, we’re waiting for the new crop to begin in Peru in November. We’re starting to work on new crop contracts with customers on organic mango from Peru for cheeks and strips and we think the price for this product will be much lower than that of Mexico as it comes out. Reach out if you’re in need of mango coverage. Once we have a clear picture of Peru, we can offer contracts through most of 2025. Cashews. Cashews remain tight and expensive. Organics are getting harder as raw material is not flowing into Vietnam and there is so much demand for what is there already. Stocks in the USA are very hand to mouth right now as well.

Garrett McBride [01:06:41]:

Smirk’s has positions on organic pieces, organic splits and organic 3 twenties, but they’re getting booked quickly. Please let us know what you might need as soon as possible. Finally, macadamias. Macadamias continue to increase in price and it is very hard to get spot offers. Most packers are sold out for the current crop. Kenyan packers are shipping very late on existing contracts as well. Prices should continue to increase until new crop in 2025, but this product will not arrive in the USA until May or June of that year. Smurx has positions on conventional 1l, conventional 4s, and conventional 6s.

Garrett McBride [01:07:22]:

On organics, we have limited stocks of organic 1l, organic 1r, organic 4, and organic 6. These are all arriving October 4 and selling quickly. Thanks for listening to the August 2024 market update. As always, reach out to us at what’s new at smirks.com anytime for more information. Thanks.

Garrett McBride [01:07:43]:

So that’s it for this episode of Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast, where we bring you the latest market reports, insights into bulk ingredients and their origins, as well as in-depth product information.

Garrett McBride [01:07:57]:

So if you have

Garrett McBride [01:07:57]:

any questions, feedback, or just want a feedback, or just want a sample to taste for yourself, visit the smyrks.com website or email us at what’s new at smyrks.com. Never miss a future episode. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks so much for tuning in.

The post Transcript: Smirk’s Top 10 Countdown – Best Bakery Trends of 2024 appeared first on Bulk Ingredient Network.

Zach Schwindt [00:00:49]:
Hello everyone. And welcome to episode 12 of the, Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast. I’m Zach Schwint. And with me today is Garrett McBride. We’re gonna be chatting about the exciting world of pet food and animal product, bulk ingredients, and industry trends. It’s fresh on our minds since we exhibited at the end of April at the Pet Food Forum in Kansas City. Smirk’s has been serving the industry for a little while now as a pet food ingredient supplier, but this was our first time exhibiting at the Pet Food Forum. So in this episode, we’ll be calling out the trends we saw and just shining a little more light on the industry in general.

Zach Schwindt [00:01:22]:
In our second segment, we’ll explore the various ingredients that Smirk’s offers and in the 3rd segment, we’ll have Donnie’s market report. So, Garrett, I’m excited to chat with you about all things pet food.

Garrett McBride [00:01:33]:
Cool stuff, Zach. And there are a lot

Garrett McBride [00:01:35]:
of exciting things going on in this pet food space, and it feels like it’s just the tip of the iceberg for us.

Zach Schwindt [00:01:41]:
Yeah. No question, Garrett. I mean, in 2023, the pet food market in the US was valued at $43,900,000,000. Man. And this number is expected to grow to nearly 60,000,000,000 by 2032 according to the I’m ARC group. These numbers are comprised of dry pet food, wet and canned pet food, and pet snacks and treats, primarily for dogs and cats, but for other pets as well. It’s a growing category in the economy, and a segment of this market is trending towards premium pet food and pet treat products. According to Mintel Insights, pet owners are looking for products that provide overall wellness, healthy aging, good digestion, and healthy coats.

Zach Schwindt [00:02:21]:
They are also seeking products which contain simple and recognizable ingredient decks. Interestingly enough, Mintel indicates there’s even more new product development and innovation going on in the pet food industry. I mean, 50% of which is for dogs and cats than in human food. And 1 third of the innovation is coming from upstart pet food companies that have emerged in the last 5 years. It is predicted consumers desire to change their pets’ food to optimize health will continue to prompt more personalization for individuals pets specific needs. Owners are also starting to take interest in DNA tests for their dogs to determine the dog’s unique dietary needs as well. And a subset of the pet owner market is willing to pay for a cost of fresh pet foods, which are sold in either chilled or frozen formats.

Garrett McBride [00:03:08]:
Well, that’s crazy. What a huge and growing market. For those that are unfamiliar, what can you tell us about the pet food forum?

Zach Schwindt [00:03:15]:
Oh, the pet food forum is an awesome show. It’s first time exhibiting and we were very excited to see the different types of not only innovation, but, you know, you have companies who are manufacturing, whether it’s fruit powders or, you know, a digestive enzyme or whatever it is. There’s plenty of vendors that are unique, and it was very cool to see many different types of companies that supply the industry with products and services we’re exhibiting at the show. A large group of pet food CPG brands and producers were also in attendance. We enjoyed the chance to connect with so many interesting people from this fun and growing industry. Turns out there was almost 4,000 people that showed up this year and almost 400 exhibitors from my understanding.

Garrett McBride [00:04:01]:
That’s so crazy. I mean, just a couple years ago, it was like 4 brands of dog food on the shelf, you know, basic kibble. And now we’re, we’re in a whole new world. While you’re at that show, Zach, what are some of the trends that stuck out to you?

Zach Schwindt [00:04:13]:
You know, Garrett, what I found interesting is that many of the trends are closely mirroring what we see in the world of products for humans in our organic and natural food industry. As we know, many consumers are more conscious about choosing healthier foods these days. But what struck me is that this trend is translating to the food that consumers are purchasing for their pets. It’s wild, but in our last podcast episode 11 where we highlighted trends from natural products expo west, many of the same call outs were featured at the Pet Food Forum. These included, you know, an emphasis on sustainability, functional pet food, plant based proteins, and even more organic and regenerator of pet food. And food safety was also an important topic.

Garrett McBride [00:04:53]:
Yeah. Really astounding how, how much the pet food sector mirrors and what we see in the, human food, Such a shift. Considering that so many people treat their pets as full fledged family members, I guess it’s not surprising that they care enough to spend as much or maybe even more on their pets than they do on themselves. Diving into these themes a little bit deeper, let’s start with the topic of sustainability. What’s most important to pet food consumers when it comes to sustainability, Zach?

Zach Schwindt [00:05:20]:
That’s a good question. I mean, let’s take packaging to start off. Most companies are putting an emphasis on recyclable and biodegradable packaging whenever possible. And when it comes to the actual pet food products, consumers are valuing more products with upcycled ingredients. In other words, if there’s a way to utilize an ingredient in a pet food product, which keeps it from becoming a waste or heading to a landfill, it is considered upcycled. And they value sustainability business practice. The pet food is is very prevalent that sustainability was very important. Some examples are pet food facilities that are powered by renewable energy, such as solar power or products produced by limiting water use in the process.

Zach Schwindt [00:06:02]:
There’s several ways that we saw companies marketing their products as sustainable.

Garrett McBride [00:06:07]:
And I love that the upcycled concept is, has really taken hold. That’s such a cool way to be sustainable. What kinds of functional pet food products did you see and and talk about at the show?

Zach Schwindt [00:06:19]:
Yeah. A lot of people were asking us for products that provide better gut health for their pets. You know, as an example, they wanted quinoa, but specifically, they needed quinoa flakes because these are much more digestible for dogs than whole quinoa. And pumpkin powder is another item that’s great for pets digestion as well. And psyllium husk psyllium husk, whether it’s the powder or the fiber popped up as a product that, you know, aids dogs and horses and digestion in the same way it does for humans really.

Garrett McBride [00:06:49]:
Yeah. We heard from, one of our business partners. They use Chia as part of the horse feed in the southeast United States because the horses consume a lot of the dust and the the the gritty substrate where they live. The chia actually bulks their stool and pushes the the dirt and the dust and the grime out of their digestive tract. It’s really really cool stuff.

Zach Schwindt [00:07:09]:
That’s very interesting.

Garrett McBride [00:07:10]:
Yeah. And we all know, you know, there’s nothing like a sick dog to make you realize the importance of gut health. I know this from personal experience as a dog owner. Nobody wants to clean up those messes or be up in the middle of the night taking care of those sick pooches.

Zach Schwindt [00:07:24]:
Yeah. No. No. I definitely do not blame you. And as I noticed, many companies are looking to add plant based proteins into their ingredient decks. It’s not just a human trend. You know, our pets are eating more vegetables, fruits, seeds, and grains as well. As for grains, some brands are highly in gluten free while others are the opposite.

Zach Schwindt [00:07:42]:
There are different viewpoints on gluten in pets’ diets depending on the the specific animal, the pet’s dietary needs, whether it’s prescribed by a veterinarian or, you know, if the pet appears to be allergic to a specific ingredient, some pet food brands carry both gluten free and products with non gluten free grains to satisfy different needs. Plant based proteins of interest at the show include various protein powders, such as pea protein, pumpkin protein powder, rice protein powder, and alternative proteins like brewer’s yeast. Other plant based sources of protein that are popular for pet foods and treats are both chickpea flour, peanut butter, oats, groats, oat flour, pulses like chickpeas, peas, and lentils. Barley was a popular grain as well.

Garrett McBride [00:08:34]:
What kind of, fruit and veggies are our 4 legged friends consuming in their food and treats these days?

Zach Schwindt [00:08:39]:
Yes. Some great dried fruit and vegetable powder options are are available like banana, apple, strawberry, blueberry, you know, citrus fruit powders. On the vegetable side, we see dried peas, potato starch, corn, and sweet potato are definitely large items that we saw being utilized in the pet food industry. So

Garrett McBride [00:09:02]:
Are you also noticing, alternative sweeteners trending in the pet food space as well?

Zach Schwindt [00:09:07]:
Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, coconut sugar is alternative sweetener known for what’s lower glycemic level than traditional cane sugar, which is what many pet food brands prefer to steer away from. And we can’t forget about the functional oils. A lot of pet food products utilize oils, such as coconut oil, MCT oil, sunflower oil, flaxseed oil, canola oil. All these oils help keep the dogs and cats coats healthy and shiny. You know, honestly, coconut products in general are popular, very, very common for adding in dog food to increase, you know, the shining of the coats and, and whatnot. Desiccated coconut, coconut flour, coconut milk powder, and even coconut aminos are incorporated into pet food and pet treats.

Garrett McBride [00:09:53]:
Man, everybody loves coconut. And you had mentioned previously organic and regenerative. What are you seeing and hearing on that front?

Zach Schwindt [00:10:01]:
Some brands are going all in with organic treats or pet food. This is appealing to consumers who believe strongly in the value of organic products. So while the marketing is still mainly conventional, we’re seeing more requests for organic ingredients. Regenerative is still relatively new, but as we know, more consumers are aware of the regenerative organic certified products for human consumption. What we learned is that regenerative is starting to pop up. For example, some brands are going all in with organic treats or pet food. And, you know, this is appealing to consumers who believe strongly in the value of organic products. So while the marketing is still mainly conventional, we are seeing more requests for organic ingredients.

Zach Schwindt [00:10:42]:
Regenerative is still relatively new, but as we know, more consumers are aware of regenerative organic certified products for human consumption. What we learned is that regenerative is starting to pop up. For example, there’s a brand of pet treats made with mushrooms that are regenerative organic certified. We imagine this trend could continue. As we saw at Expo West, some of the bigger categories of regenerative products include dried fruits and grains such as rice. Another interesting functional ingredient used in pet food is sorghum, interestingly enough. It is said to be relatively easy to digest for dogs and provides fiber to be low glycemic. It’s just an ingredient that can help animals to avoid spikes in their blood sugar.

Zach Schwindt [00:11:25]:
So

Garrett McBride [00:11:26]:
Yeah. This conversation’s starting to sound more and more like we’re talking about human food. This

Zach Schwindt [00:11:32]:
is a Yeah. We noticed a lot of similarities. I mean, one thing that we did that really stuck out to me personally was just like in the world of human food, pet food companies are starting to ask for ready to eat or RTE ingredients. In other words, they wanna make sure the ingredients they procure have gone through a validation process to ensure the risk of microorganism and pathogen is still consistently mitigated. This is particularly important to companies that do not have

Garrett McBride [00:12:02]:
a kill step in their own manufacturing process. Yeah. It doesn’t surprise me. You know, people’s pets are their kids. Their safety is just as important. Mhmm. We’ve worked with a variety of pet food companies that take great pride in their quality and food safety, systems. It’s impressive.

Garrett McBride [00:12:14]:
Human grade standards are becoming more of the norm in the pet food space, which as a dog owner, I feel great about. But that’s the reason the pet food companies are referred to Smirk’s. Our QA team can provide the long list of quality assurance documents and address the food safety and quality concerns like we would with food intended for human consumption. We supply a range of products that are either already sterilized at origin such as chia seeds. And we have partners in the US that will sterilize our ingredients that are are raw, prior to being delivered to our customers. So a lot of options out there that Smirk’s can provide.

Zach Schwindt [00:12:49]:
No, absolutely. And, I mean, honestly, this industry is a blast. I have a ton of fun speaking with pet food industry folks and hearing the new projects people are working on. There’s a ton of innovation and just excited to be a part of the the change and the growth in the industry. But please stay tuned for segment 2, you know, as we dive deeper into the specific ingredients that Smirx offers. In the meantime, don’t hesitate to connect with Smirx by email at what’s new at smirks.com or through our website www.smirks.com. Welcome back to our episode 12 product feature where we’re focusing on ingredients that Smirx offers for animal and pet food and pet treats. These items are typically offered in non GMO conventional and organic formats.

Zach Schwindt [00:13:35]:
Let’s break it down by product category. Garrett, do you wanna start with coconut products?

Garrett McBride [00:13:39]:
Yeah. Let’s start with coconut products. You know, coconut is said to be very healthy, as an ingredient for pet food, especially for dogs. And as we do for human consumption, we offer a wide range of coconut specifications to meet a variety of needs for the pet food space. Desiccated coconut in a variety of cuts, medium, macaroon, chips, great for pet food treats. Coconut smiles, which have a little bit of the pairing still on the, on the chips, are a fantastic stand alone pet treat for dogs. Coconut sugar is a fantastic alternative sweetener, better than cane sugar depending on on who you ask from a glycemic index standpoint. While supply is pretty tight right now, Smirk’s can certainly work with you on, on your future needs.

Garrett McBride [00:14:24]:
We have a supplier that also offers regenerative organic certified coconut sugar out of Indonesia, which is is pretty awesome. That trend is continuing to grow. Another alternative sweetener in pet foods is coconut nectar. We play heavily in that space. Coconut flour is a big one. You know, checks a lot of boxes for people, especially in the pet food space. It is relatively inexpensive. It’s gluten free and it’s it’s healthy for pets to consume.

Garrett McBride [00:14:51]:
It’s better than most of the fillers you’re gonna find in the conventional traditional pet food types of products. Oils are another huge one. You know, as we mentioned, there are a variety of oils that are utilized in, pet food products, which are said to keep dog and cats’ coats shiny and healthy. Coconut oil, virgin coconut oil, MCT oil, the medium chain triglycerides, sunflower oil, flaxseed oil, just a a couple of the items that, the Smirk’s specializes in that we’d be thrilled to help you out with.

Zach Schwindt [00:15:23]:
Yeah. Yeah. Coconut’s a huge one. I mean, when you think about the overall product category, you know, you have everything from oils to the shreds to the sweetener category. I mean, coconut in general is just a a huge category, but seeds is also a huge, huge category. And at Smirk’s, we’re very competitive in, in, you know, a variety of seeds imported from around the globe. So flax seeds is an item that’s found in a lot of different pet food ingredients, both raw and ready to eat flax. You know, there’s golden flax, brown flax, whole seed, milled, plenty of different flax specifications that Smirks deals with.

Zach Schwindt [00:16:05]:
Chia is another one that, you know, we see a lot of horse food customers will will be purchasing this for digestive health. We’ve seen some dog food customers as well, and this is available both in raw and sterilized format, also in in whole seed and and mill versions as well. Sunflower seeds is another big one. Primarily, we see this going into bird food. We have the sunflower kernels, and then we have the in shell sunflower seeds or, you know, black oil sunflower seeds. And these are, you know, both from from a price perspective, you’re getting a lot of nutrition to the pet. You know, in comparison to chi or another ingredient, it’s a great option in terms of the price. Quinoa flakes, We provide both raw and sterilized quinoa flakes, which are easier for dogs to digest than the whole quinoa seed.

Zach Schwindt [00:17:02]:
Another one that we’re, that we’re working with with a lot of pet food companies is psyllium husk fiber. You know, it’s said to be a great source of fiber and aids in dog’s digestion. And then another category I would think is very worth mentioning is plant based proteins. As we discussed in our previous segment, most more pet food brands are, you know, incorporating plant based proteins as a substitute for animal proteins in their ingredient deck. Smirk’s offers a range of protein powders that are widely used in pet products. Pea protein powder. It’s a huge conversation right now with the anti dumping situation in China. So we are actively able to offer the non Chinese origin pea protein powder, and this can come from Canada.

Zach Schwindt [00:17:48]:
And there’s also some options in Asia as well. Sunflower protein powder. It’s a new one for us. We work very well in, in dog food, some horse food as well. Pumpkin protein powder. We see this being a very common ingredient in in dog food. And then rice protein. So we’ve seen some people start to shift away from pea protein, wanting to incorporate some more readily available proteins and rice protein has been, you know, a good substitute for those who are looking to to steer away from pea.

Zach Schwindt [00:18:22]:
For nuts and nut butters, peanut butter has been known to be the source of protein for dogs. And I don’t know about you, but my dog loves a spoonful of peanut butter. So Smirk’s offers a range of peanuts, you know, whether those be splits or, Virginias. We have a wide portfolio of peanut ingredients, both whole peanuts and peanut butter.

Garrett McBride [00:18:45]:
Yeah. I don’t think anybody’s ever gonna replace peanut butter as the most popular, dog treat in our house. They can’t get enough of that. You know, Smirk’s deals pretty heavily in in grains and starches as well. Many, but not all of the grains and starches are gluten free. For those brands that are looking to formulate with that gluten free call out, keeps growing in popularity, and then we’re here to support that. On the other hand, some brands offer lines of products that contain gluten, and some use grains such as barley. We support that as well.

Garrett McBride [00:19:16]:
Sorghum is another one we mentioned before. This ancient grain is gluten free and is known to provide fiber and protein. It has a relatively low glycemic index, and some studies show that it’s relatively easy for dogs to digest. Barley’s another one, as mentioned. It’s non gluten free, but utilized in some pet food products. Tapioca starch gaining popularity, known to be a source of carbohydrates and energy for pets. They can add bulk to kibble. Arrow root powder is another one, gluten free option.

Garrett McBride [00:19:48]:
Cassava flour, gluten free as well. Potato starch used as a binder in wet and dry pet foods and of course rice, you know, a common ingredient in many pet food products. We sell a lot of rice. We’re here to support you on that front. Pulses, lower cost protein, plant based, provides a healthy filler for pet foods, especially for those that, choose not to use animal based proteins. They can market their products as grain free. Chickpeas, peas, lentils, some others. Oats are another big one.

Garrett McBride [00:20:20]:
Known to be a good source of soluble fiber for dogs. They’re offered in gluten free and non gluten free. Also comes in, oat flour and in groats.

Zach Schwindt [00:20:29]:
Yeah. Oats are definitely one that we saw all over at the pet food forum recently. You know? And in general, dried fruits is another one that’s being incorporated into many pet foods and pet treats to add additional, you know, nutrition and fiber. Some dried fruits that Smirk’s typically stocks include dried apples and these common both the diced and ring format. Dried pineapple. So this comes in small tidbits and then ring format. We work with a lot of dried mango. These are in strips and cheek format.

Zach Schwindt [00:21:06]:
We can also do dices by request. Dried cranberries. We’ve just started to bring this into our warehouse. It’s readily available on both coasts. It’s a new item for smirks. We’re working with both sugar infused and apple juice infused cranberries. So here definitely here to support you on the cranberry front and banana chips is another one.

Zach Schwindt [00:21:35]:
You know, we see those going into a lot of bird food applications and whatnot. So smirks can source a range of dried fruits from cherries, blueberries, papaya, banana, anything dried fruit, we’re glad to help you out with.

Garrett McBride [00:21:50]:
Yeah. We’ve got it all. We’re we’re ready to serve you. Smirk’s also works with r and d teams to source and supply new items. We provide samples, pricing information, quality documentation. We work closely with your team to support your new product development projects and and help make your programs as successful as they can possibly be. We can also be there for your ongoing ingredient needs, you know, whether it’s a primary supplier or a secondary supplier to to offer you that critical redundancy in your supply chain. You know, let us be your safety net.

Garrett McBride [00:22:21]:
Our QA team is there to provide your regulatory team the quality documentation that, that they need to make sure that, everything is where it needs to be from a food safety standpoint to support the certifications that, you might have associated with your your product lines. We offer human grade ingredients and a full suite of QA documentation that should meet the requirements for your animal and pet food projects. Let us know what you need and we’ll work together. We’re there for you. So whether you’re new or just breaking into the pet food industry or a well established pet food brand or pet food co man, we hope you’ll reach out to Smirx to request some specifications, samples, and price information. Connect with Smirx through our website www.smirk’s.com or email us at what’s@newsmirks.com. Thanks a ton for tuning in to our product feature. We’ll look forward to hearing from you.

Garrett McBride [00:23:14]:
Next up, stay tuned as we have our market report on deck.

Donny Edson [00:23:21]:
Smirk’s June market report. We will start with ocean freight. Shortages are causing very high rates from Asia. We’re seeing rates in the 7 to $8,000 range from Southeast Asia right now with the expectations that it will go above $10,000 by the end of the summer. Carriers are indicating that rates will likely not decrease until 2025. This is compared to rates of $1500 to $3,000 a few months ago. Why is this happening? There is a shortage of equipment mostly set off by all the lane changes that happened as a result of the attacks through the Suez Canal. This has led to higher demand for equipment as many industries, including our own, are back to purchasing larger volumes than they were a few months ago.

Donny Edson [00:24:03]:
What does this mean? Means that it’s really hard to give contracts further out to hedge what freight costs are gonna be. Even if importers have ocean freight contracts with carriers, there are no guarantees that the carriers will have equipment ready when the product is ready to load. Overall, expect higher freight prices for 2024, and expect shipment delays from most origins. Another hot topic right now are the new organic rules. We continue to see shipment delays on our organic items across the globe as shippers are waiting for certification bodies to inspect the goods to issue the NLP import certificates, which are required on all shipments now to the USA. Processors are reluctant to line up containers for loading until they’ve got the certificate in hand, and this coupled with the ocean freight issues we just mentioned is causing delays anywhere from 3 to 5 weeks on some items. Alright. Onto our market updates.

Donny Edson [00:24:55]:
Since our last report, there’s been a number of serious events that have caused some markets to increase dramatically. However, some markets are stabilizing as well. So we’ll start off with coconut. As we’ve been talking about for a few months now, El Nino has caused some serious issues globally with coconut. Extreme heat and drought in the Philippines has caused prices to increase, and offers from the Philippines are very hard to get. There are only a couple suppliers offering shipment for the end of 2024, while many other suppliers are sold out already on their desiccated items. Although the Philippines are tight, some other origins are offering product for shipment, but the price at origin, coupled with the increased ocean freight cost, is making the landed cost of the coconut almost at COVID levels. Here’s a breakdown of each origin for you.

Donny Edson [00:25:43]:
The Philippines. As mentioned, desiccated supply is tight and virtually gone for the rest of 2024. If you’re not covered from the Philippines, it’s gonna be very hard to get coverage there. Vietnam. This is a great option to get coverage on the books. They do have supply ready to ship pretty fast, and the pricing is comparable to what Q4 pricing was being offered at from the Philippines a few weeks ago. If you’re not covered on coconut, this is a recommended option to consider. Indonesia.

Donny Edson [00:26:12]:
Indonesia is pretty tight as well, and they are way behind on shipments. However, they will soon start offering shipment for their stuff in September sometime in July, but it will be very limited volume. So Indonesia will be a small option for some loads. Sri Lanka. Some of the packers had a small amount left to ship in July, but are mostly booked towards August. In Sri Lanka, it’s hard to get pricing very far out because of the fluctuation of their currency right now. So they mostly will book 6 to 8 weeks before they’re able to ship when they know they can lock in the currency one. So, again, overall, on coconut, the market is up, and we expect it to remain very firm.

Donny Edson [00:26:52]:
If you need coverage, we recommend reaching out immediately to consider looking at Vietnam origin. Coconut sugar. There’s a lot going on with coconut sugar from Indonesia at the moment that is leading to the shortages in the market. We’ll start with El Nino’s extreme heat that stressed the trees and led to less volume early in the year. As we were going into Ramadan, packers were trying to secure raw material. So when they came out of Ramadan, they have some product to process, but they were not able to secure the product. So after Ramadan, there was a run on the market to get anything possible to fill their back orders. In addition to the shortage of the product, the organic NLP import certificates are making it even harder for the supply chain to get product.

Donny Edson [00:27:31]:
Most shippers are booked through September right now, so relief is very, very far off. Overall, prices are increasing in Indonesia, freight is increasing, and supply is not available for new shipments until after September. So coconut sugar is gonna remain very difficult for the foreseen future. The next item we wanna talk about is cashews. The news is pretty concrete now that the crop is shorter than past crops. Biggest news is the Ivory Coast, which is a major shipper of RCN, which is raw cashew nut or the or the in shell cashews, imposed an export ban on RCN in May. They are one of the top shipping countries of this product in India and Vietnam. This has choked the supply chain of nuts to process, and we’ve seen pricing of 3 20 count cashews increase almost a dollar per pound in the last 4 weeks.

Donny Edson [00:28:19]:
Buyers are not fully covered, and many packers are now off the market until they can secure some raw cashew nuts to process. In addition to this, there are quality concerns of what the RCN will be when it is released and shipped from the Ivory Coast. All this coupled with importers keeping lower stocks, freight increases, and freight delays means cashews will remain tight, and we do not know when the prices will drop. There are some rumors of defaults already from some shippers as the market’s gone up so high and so fast. This is not

Zach Schwindt [00:28:48]:
only with conventional cashews. Organic cashews are very, very

Donny Edson [00:28:48]:
hard to find as well. If you’re not cashews, you should work to find some coverage immediately. Macadamia nuts. The market on macadamia nuts continues to firm up and remain tight as China continues to import in shell and large kernels to feed their strong demand. Kenya is basically out of product to offer until their smaller crop starts in November. South Africa is offering some product but prices are very high. Spot inventories in the US are very hard to come by. We do not see any scenarios where the price of macadamia drops until at least 2025 when new crop starts then.

Donny Edson [00:29:24]:
Chia. The new crop of chia is upon us in South America, and all indications are pointing to a large good crop. There’ve been no reports of significant frost damages, and we’re almost home free on frost anyways. Prices are very attractive for contracts for the new crop, which will start shipping in late July early August. Please reach out to see what we can put together for you on the chia. One more item I wanna talk about that has been softening is pumpkin seeds. Reports from China are there is a large planting of pumpkin this year. This has led to declining prices at origin for pumpkin as stockholders look to offload product before the big new crop arrives.

Donny Edson [00:29:59]:
However, demand is still quiet in China and around the world for pumpkin, so prices continue to weaken. The only issue is that as the prices decrease, ocean freight continues to increase, meaning the savings we’re seeing on the product at origin are not really seen yet because of the dramatic increases in ocean freight. Nonetheless, it’s recommended to stay covered through November, then we’ll be able to see what new crop’s coming in, and you’ll be able to take advantages of the good prices coming from the new crop. Aside from these commodities, we’re not seeing too much movement in the markets that we have not spoken about in the past reports. These are the major items we’re keeping an eye on, particularly ocean freight, coconut, and cashews. So that wraps up our get the scoop with Smirks market report for the month of June.

Garrett McBride [00:30:42]:
So that’s it for this episode of Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast, where we bring you the latest market reports, insights into bulk ingredients and their origins, as well as in-depth product information. So if you have any questions, feedback, or just want a sample to taste for yourself, visit the smirks.com website or email us at what’s new at smirks.com. Never miss a future episode. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in.

The post Transcript: Animal & Pet Food Bulk Product Ingredients & Industry Trends appeared first on Bulk Ingredient Network.

Garrett McBride: Hey, there. Welcome to Get the Scoop with Smirk’s Podcast, where bulk ingredient conversation happens. We’re sharing our knowledge and expertise as bulk ingredient importers, tapping into the latest trends we are seeing and commenting on what that means for natural food businesses as they approach ingredient purchasing, product development, and marketing. You’ll hear the latest market reports, ingredient specifications, and product applications from Smirk’s in-house experts, as well as origin stories from our growers and processors around the world. Listen in for the scoop on what’s happening with bulk ingredients.

Garrett McBride: Hey there, and welcome to our get the scoop with Smirk’s podcast episode 11. Today, we’ll be breaking down Expo West, exploring the various products and trends we saw as we cruised the show floor in Anaheim last month. In our product feature segment, we’ll dive into some of the ingredients that Smirk’s offers that track with some of the trends that we saw at Expo. And then in the 3rd segment, we’ll wrap things up with our market report. In case you’re newer to the industry and haven’t attended before, Natural Products Expo West is the largest natural and organic products trade show in the United States and it’s held every March in Anaheim, California. This year, there are over 3,000 exhibitors and more than 65,000 people in attendance. Smirk’s brought a huge team of 11 people and our group exhibited in the organic marketplace and in the organic section of Hall B. This gave our team a great opportunity to not only talk to people at our booth, but also to explore what’s new and innovative in the natural and organic product world by walking the show.

Garrett McBride: My esteemed colleagues, Jessica Warden and Zach Schwindt are here with me today to share their experiences and discuss what they saw this year at Expo West. So, without further ado, let’s dive right in. Welcome, Zach. What trends and new innovations did you encounter at Expo West this year?

Zach Schwindt: Hey, Garrett. I’m excited to chat with you and Jessica about Expo West. To start off, I noticed that regenerative organic products were much more widespread than last year. In the organic marketplace, nearly every 3rd booth was showcasing products that were labeled as regenerative organic certified. And RO certified products were sprinkled throughout other halls as well. There was everything from RO certified coffee, tea, chocolate, rice grains, peppers, kelp chips, meat, dried fruits, as well as some soap and hygiene products as well. Garrett, what are your thoughts on the RO certified trend?

Garrett McBride: I think your take is spot on. You know, I’ll tell you, it’s been just in the last 2 or 3 years that I really started seeing regenerative organic certified products at Expo West. I mean, prior to that, it was few and far between. This year, it’s as if the number of manufacturers and CPG brands offering the RO certified products increased dramatically. Recently, I read an article entitled Understanding Why Regenerative Agriculture is the Fastest Growing Green Theme. The Food Institute published this in February of 2024. And the gist of their article that’s based on Spin’s trend reports is that many consumers still see sustainability as an optional must have for organic brands as they’re skeptical of the greenwashing of the industry where unsubstantiated claims are widespread. But where sales of some sustainable product categories are down such as fair trade certified that dropped 26%, sales of certified regenerative organic products are up 39%.

Garrett McBride: RO certified defines regenerative organic agriculture as a collection of practices that focus on regenerating soil health and the full farm ecosystem. This includes farming practices like cover cropping, crop rotation, low to no till compost, and 0 use of persistent chemical pesticides and fertilizers. Regenerative organic is believed to contribute to carbon sequestration and storage in the soil. That’s pretty cool. Some consumers believe that regenerative practices go a step further than the typical sustainability efforts, and therefore they see the value in spending their dollars on RO certified products. I also noticed a variety of products that were upcycled such as items made from coffee cherry pulp, peel on dried fruits, frozen banana treats made from irregularly shaped bananas, candy made from upcycled fruits, pretty cool stuff overall. They’re using a lot more of what traditionally would have been waste to make their finished goods. Okay, you’re up next. What caught your attention at expo?

Jessica Warden: Oh, a better question, would be what didn’t catch my attention at expo, Garrett. I was actually chatting with one of our fellow trading partners, and she was speaking about how her the inner magpie was just like, oh, ah, at everything because there was so much sparkle and color and all kinds of bright, vibrant brands. And I certainly thought that resonated with myself as well because I I found myself just stopping and looking at all the different things to take in. So, all that’s to say is there was a lot to take in at expo. Like you mentioned, with all of the different folks exhibiting, there is just, you know, it’s just a lot to take in. So, if I did have to call something out though, as far as trends go, I would say that, the multitasker in me is really jazzed about this, continuation of functional foods, where basically you’re eating it for sustenance and nutrients, but then there’s also a double whammy usually layered in there with some other type of ingredient. I noticed this trend last year, and, actually, I think we chatted about it on our last expo wrap podcast. But definitely saw that it’s alive and well this year.

It seems to even have reached maybe some new heights, where there’s some new ingredients being thrown in the mix, new products, and brands that are really, embracing this trend with consumers. So, there’s just something about when you’re walking down the aisles and you’re seeing all these new snack categories and everybody’s kind of bragging about gut health that got me kinda digging a little deeper, and I did a quick Google search before chatting with you guys. And, did you know a fun fact that, your gut creates 30 neurotransmitters and also is, like, responsible for 90% of the serotonin production in your system. So

Zach Schwindt: I didn’t know that.

Jessica Warden: I didn’t know that either. And so, I just thought I was like, oh, well, this kind of explains why brands like, you know, the snack bars, the chocolate makers, the beverage makers, they’re all just kinda gunning after that big gut health market share. So, we saw a lot of fermented items that represented that at the show. Grilled pickles. Did you know grilled pickles were a thing? Apparently, that’s the thing now.

Garrett McBride: Those are the 1 on the top five list of things that I saw at Expo. Fantastic.

Jessica Warden: I don’t even know if I walked past that booth, but I heard everybody talking about it. So, it was a big hit at the show. And then if you didn’t find the grilled pickles and you didn’t find the fermented gut health items, there were a lot of probiotic and prebiotic products that we were seeing around. Some were fermented with including different fermented nuts. Saw a lot of kimchi, even kimchi pancakes. So, again, really adding some flavor to your breakfast.

Zach Schwindt: Very innovative. Yeah. Let’s see that one.

Jessica Warden: The savory element, I suppose.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah.

Jessica Warden: And then there are also just other various snack foods and bars and chocolates. We saw some stuff that had a lot of added caffeine, maybe in not your drinkable type fashion like normal. And then a lot of things that we were looking at were adaptogens. One that has kind of been in the market, but, again, continue to see it is ashwagandha, where it’s just being added to different products that maybe wouldn’t traditionally have it. But folks believe that it helps reduce stress levels and aids the immune system, so it’s definitely taken on a life of its own in the in the natural food space.

Garrett McBride: And that’s a cool one because there’s actually been a lot of legitimate scientific studies and work around the benefits of the ashwagandha.

Jessica Warden: Yeah. Exactly.

Zach Schwindt: Ashwagandha and Maka have both I thought been pretty prevalent, you know, in that space. I actually saw some ashwagandha extract in a water product, and I thought that was a big trend this year at Expo West. There’s a lot of different water products, especially sparkling waters. It’s definitely not a show where you have to worry about where to satisfy your thirst. Take your pick of functional waters. I mean, I saw various ingredients being highlighted in probiotic sparkling waters. Some beverages were incorporating apple cider vinegar, which was thought also to help improve digestion and gut health. I noticed that electrolytes were big this year.

Some products were also incorporating coconut water or coconut water powder and other added alkaline. The electrolyte drink categories seem to be targeted towards different demographics, such towards women or maternity. You could also find quite a bit in the organic section as well on the waters, which I thought was cool.

Jessica Warden: Interesting.

Zach Schwindt: These brands appear to be responding to a need for healthier alternatives to like big name sport drinks like, you know, Gatorade or whatever. And they were offered in either ready to drink or powder format. There are also various alkaline water products. So that, and as I understand it, alkaline increases your pH levels. So, some people believe this is thought to help increase your energy and improve digestion. And I did find waters with adaptogens as well, Jessica.

Jessica Warden: Oh, neat. Yeah. I, think that my kids would probably appreciate me to be not so sassy and acidic probably. They need me to my alkaline levels, maybe they’ll find that. But we’re more on the drinking the dysfunctional water in our household. So Yeah. Sign me up for that.

Garrett McBride: Yeah.

Jessica Warden: Shifting gears, though. I noticed it real like, same when the drink kinda responding to the big name drinks where we see a lot of things with lower sugars, more natural sweeteners. We see that a lot with beverages, but now it’s, you know, in snacks often. And so, we’re seeing a lot more of a widespread look at the people staying away from cane sugar and going more towards coconut sugar, date sugar, maple sugar, coconut nectar, fruit powders, honey. And a lot of that is, I think, related to the fact that you can kinda label it a little bit more cleanly where you’re necessarily having an added sugar. It’s just a natural sweetener. And so, we’re definitely seeing those products and even maybe to a lesser extent than before, but certainly, stevia and monk fruit are still alive and well at the shows and, definitely trying to generate some attention there.

Garrett McBride: Yeah. Agreed. That alternative sweetener trend just continues to grow. A lot of reduced and zero sugar beverages, snacks, and everything in between. On a different note, I have to mention one of the coolest products I saw at the show. You know, we’re used to seeing tons of plant based everything, plant based nuggets, plant based meat analogs of every shape and form. I saw for the first time plant based bacon and it was seasoned shredded coconut instead of seasoned smoked pig. Jumped out.

It was just an amazing, great tasting alternative to, you know, a meat based bacon. And, yeah, I’m a bacon fan. I wouldn’t have been able to tell the difference from a flavor standpoint.

Zach Schwindt: It was pretty cool.

Jessica Warden: That’s awesome. I think I’ve seen a similar product before, but, you know, to your point, you could kinda tell. You know, you could definitely you tell it was something mimicking. So it’s neat to see that the folks are just still continuing to do research and development and find these alternatives that are so closely mimicking the thing that they’re trying to emulate.

Garrett McBride: Yeah. The innovation in that space is definitely improving the, the experience of those products from a few years back when they first kind of emerged.

Jessica Warden: Sure.

Garrett McBride: Yeah. I never would have thought that the grilled pickles would have been tasty. They were, as we mentioned, amazing. And I don’t know if it was a flavor.

Zach Schwindt: Who would have thought about grilling a pickle? Who would have thought?

Garrett McBride: I don’t know if it was a grilling flavor.

Zach Schwindt: Spending my whole life doing, but

Garrett McBride: Yep. Just an outstanding thing.

Jessica Warden: I’ve deep fried pickles but never grilled them, so

Garrett McBride: Pickle in any form, but that was that was a great product. Yeah. What else caught your eye, Zach?

Zach Schwindt: I felt like protein rich products were still a big thing. I saw pasta with added protein, you know, vegan cheese puffs with protein, double protein oats. Another thing that stuck out to me as well were nostalgic flavors and those products that were kinda highlighting the old-fashioned flavors from their grandma’s kitchen.

Jessica Warden: Yeah.

Zach Schwindt: That kind of thing. Like I saw traditional style buttermilk biscuits, like with a twist, you know, they were gluten free made from almond flour, which was cool. I also saw some chocolate zucchini bread, a portable pocket style snack version of, peanut butter jelly. You know, there are some classic flavors like birthday cake, red velvet. Cookie dough is also, I thought, very relevant at this show.

Jessica Warden: Definitely.

Zach Schwindt: It seemed like that was in granola, protein, bars and shakes and all kinds of stuff. So, I thought nostalgic flavors extended into the freezer section as well. You know, there was some Neapolitan frozen, traditional ice cream made with oat milk and flavored with natural vanilla. So, I thought those were some of the some of the highlights that I saw.

Jessica Warden: Yeah. I definitely agree. One of my, daughter’s favorite things to say lately is, that’s my childhood, mom. That’s my childhood. And she just keeps referring to, like, the things that my mom made for her, and she’s only 13, and she’s already having, like, the understanding of what a nostalgic flavor is. And I think

Zach Schwindt: That’s cool.

Jessica Warden: As adults, we very much have that same thought of you come across something, you’re like, that was my whole childhood. So, it’s kinda fun to see when you look back at the at the things we were eating as kids and saw how terribly nutrient poor they were now that folks are making these innovations and turning something that we loved as a kid growing up and actually giving some nutrient density to it and making us feel a little bit better about consuming those things is kinda cool.

Zach Schwindt: Yep.

Jessica Warden: So, it lets us be, you know, healthier yet still indulgent and a lot more functional across the board. So if you if you kinda go back to, you know, us as adults wanting craving that nostalgic flavor, if you string it all together, it really seems like consumers are still looking for that healthier yet indulgent functional snacks and often nostalgic and classic snack reformulated to hit those nutritional targets is just what folks are really trying to find in their pantries and refrigerators and freezer sections. So next thing you know, consumers are feeling good and enjoying every, bit of their, you know, protein rich vegan cheese puffs. Even if it doesn’t give you the Cheeto fingers that you are craving, it’ll still hit those nostalgic, like, I need my Cheetos cravings. So, the other cool thing, I think, Garrett, you were one of the ones who pointed this one out to me, was there was innovation around pistachios, and there was this really cool pistachio oil and pistachio cream. And I think you came up from the basement areas kinda where it was located, and you were just like, everybody’s gotta go try this. And I have to say, I did try it, and I was just it was, like you said, one of the top five snacks I had.

Garrett McBride: Mhmm. Yeah. Vegan Pistachio Cream was at the top of my list. It’s outstanding.

Jessica Warden: And then there was one that I thought, it was barley milk. So, I thought that was a new plant a new and interesting plant-based milk. We’ve seen a lot of iterations of plant-based milks over the last couple years, but I felt like that one was one I haven’t, seen. And kind of in that same vein of the dairy section, as most of my coworkers know, I am a huge fan of butter. I would probably eat it on a spoon if allowed. And so, the snack lines that were basically the flavored butters, I think they’re getting closer to folks like me where I could just eat, you know, a spoon of the black garlic butter, the pesto butter, or the garlic and shallots. There’s truffle and miso and bruschetta flavor. So

Zach Schwindt: So good.

Jessica Warden: Sign me up for that section next year. That’s where I’ll be looking.

Zach Schwindt: Taking a lunch break?

Jessica Warden: Yeah. Exactly.

Garrett McBride: Yeah. Everything’s better with butter. Did you notice how companies continue to innovate with mushrooms? Some are calling it the shroom boom.

Jessica Warden: Uh-huh. Rhyming it always so.

Garrett McBride: Science is still a work in progress, but the the fungi fungi fungi are believed by some to help benefit mood and focus. So pretty cool potential benefits there. Now consumers can partake in shroom gummies, various beverages, ground coffee, you know, alongside the coffee creamers that are already available in your local grocery store. Lot of lot of great options and formats for the shroom market.

Jessica Warden: Yeah. Definitely. I couldn’t, help but notice, a lot of honey and bee products as well. So we talked a lot more about natural sweeteners, and it seems like honey is a very natural progression in this category. So there was a lot of product ideation around, honey and honey flavor. Aside from just standalone honey, there was honey being added to salmon jerky, incorporated into ice cream, added to marinades and snack bars. One is, example was it was upcycled with oats, and wildflower honey, which is basically an upscale version of the classic honey and oats cereal that many of us, you know, grew up eating.

Garrett McBride: Are those, like, free range bees, the wildflower honey?

Jessica Warden: Definitely free range bees. Yep. They I don’t know what to say back to that guy.

Garrett McBride: Calling that out for.

Jessica Warden: Zach, do you have a free range bee joke?

Zach Schwindt: I thought they were all free range, but

Jessica Warden: No. Some of them have little leashes, and their beekeepers take them out.

Zach Schwindt: We don’t just start asking for bee free slavery statements on our

Jessica Warden: Oh, definitely. Top ingredients. Yeah. Well, when we get those QA documents, we’ll be able to buy honey that was, you know, ready to drink water, and and some of them have been incorporated into kombucha. So and then just that trend that we’ve seen probably for the last couple of years is hot honey and hot honey flavor snacks. So it seems like that’s just all the rage. So that combo of honey and the sweet and the spicy, that’s definitely something that is in snack aisles pretty hot and heavy right now.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. I thought it was interesting to see how prevalent Honey was at the show as well.

Garrett McBride: Yeah. For an ingredient that’s been around for eons, it was very much more in the spotlight this year than any other year that I can

Zach Schwindt: All of a sudden trendy. Yeah. So, it’s interesting. Moving away from food and beverage, I saw a lot of eco-friendly laundry products. Thin soap sheets that you can stick in your washer are super lightweight and easier to ship them big containers of liquid detergent. Shampoo and conditioner bars continue to pick up steam as well. So, this trend of moving away from liquid form of shampoo and conditioner and even more laundry detergent to a more condensed, easy to ship form is on the rise.

Jessica Warden: I’ve never actually tried a shampoo and conditioner bar. Have you guys?

Zach Schwindt: Never.

Garrett McBride: No. But one of our previous podcast guests, Soap Creek. They confirmed what what we’re seeing. Apparently, the shampoo and the conditioner in bar form is one of the more popular items that they produce.

Jessica Warden: Yeah. So, I definitely after, you know, seeing this trend, I wanna learn more about the product because for me, I feel like traveling with a solid form of shampoo and conditioner would be super cool, not only just, like, for getting through security issues and whatever. But every time I travel, I have this fear that when I load up my liquid shampoo and conditioner, that it’s gonna somehow make its way out of its plastic baggy home and just ruin everything in my suitcase. And then by the time I get there, then I’ll have shampoo and conditioner all or

Zach Schwindt: for shampoo. Yeah.

Jessica Warden: So it’s one of my traveling fears. But, I put money on the fact that people who came up with these bars, they probably had this happen to them, and they’re like, there must be a better way.

Garrett McBride: Yeah. You know, this stuff comes from experience. It doesn’t just,

Jessica Warden: Exactly.

Garrett McBride: enter their dreams.

Jessica Warden: Necessity breeds invention always.

Garrett McBride: Absolutely. Well, I appreciate those insights. That was a great little recap of what we saw at expo. Overall, I’m giving this year’s expo a thumbs up. It was a whole lot of fun and a lot of cool new products that, it’s always neat to see what people are able to dream up and bring to market. You know, walking the show floor this year, I noticed that some of the exhibitor spaces were empty and heard that more people decided to walk the show this year rather than exhibit. Regardless of that, I thought Expo West remained a very vibrant show and a super worthwhile experience, you know, at least for our team, you know, echoed by those that we spoke with and the industry friends and competitors and everybody else. All the buzz was that after the pandemic show shut down, we experienced a spike of visitors and exhibitors and now it seems to have dropped a bit and leveled off.

Garrett McBride: But I did hear that there were still like 800 new exhibitors this year. So, it’s still a place that new companies and brands are showcasing their product. And there’s a lot of value there for all of us. The challenge, of course, is always the hefty cost to exhibit. It’s not cheap, but very worthwhile. We found that some brands were leveraging the other opportunities at Expo West. Between the wall-to-wall people and the organic marketplace to the brands that were partnering with their co packers and sharing booths, there are some creative ways to take advantage of the big buyer audience without completely breaking the bank. Different options out there and people getting creative with their expenditures around this event.

Super smart that the Southern California chapter of the IFT

Jessica Warden: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Garrett McBride: Anaheim IFT show to the day before Expo West rather than the same day that Expo West made show opens. And it was held within a mile of the convention center, so it was super accessible. Smirk’s is exhibiting, and that place was just packed wall to wall with the manufacturer.

Zach Schwindt: Very valuable. Huge for the children.

Jessica Warden: Yeah. I definitely agree. And I think as long as we have to do, like, the sidewalk shimmy while you’re trying to go through the North Pole and, like, even the organic marketplace, I attempted to start my rounds one time, and I just had to retreat out of pure, like, nope. I’m not doing that. So I went back instead of the booth because it is just so so busy, so packed. And then even with the first two days of the traditional show opening and we were in hall b, our booth was just hopping. And it was just awesome because we had so many great conversations with the folks that we work with already. We had new people who stopped in by our booth with a lot of really just interesting innovation projects.

Jessica Warden: I think that’s one thing that we’re seeing a little bit more now. It was kind of there for a little while. Innovation, it seemed like it took maybe a back seat to some of the other things. And I don’t know about you guys, but I feel like just in our day to day, I’m seeing more in that. And then at the show, it seemed like it was kind of reinforced there.

Zach Schwindt: Mhmm.

Jessica Warden: And since we’re all about, you know, helping companies with their new projects, it’s exciting for Smirk’s. We’re certainly there to sell ingredients, but we’re also there just to help sell creative solutions. So, we love it when people bring us those new ideas and ask for, like, hey. Is this possible? And we can do different bench top work, and we can kinda see what’s the new trend before it’s even hitting the show. And I think we’re pretty well suited to help with that. But, yeah, it’s definitely still awesome to see those everyday ingredient needs, for the existing items. And if we end up being someone’s main supply chain or being a secondary supply chain just to ensure redundancy, you know, that’s what we’re all about. So, we also hear questions like, hey.

Do you know a good pack co packer who can do x y z? And that’s what’s kinda cool about the show is we have those partners there, and sometimes we can put people together right there on the spot. And, yeah, a lot of great partners walking away from the show being like, man, that was that was awesome. That was a great show. I got a lot done, and it could’ve just been because of some of the connections that we helped put together. So even for that alone, expo’s such a great time, and I really enjoy getting to be a part of that piece of it.

Garrett McBride: Well, super cool that we can put people together face to face

Jessica Warden: Yeah. At that

Garrett McBride: moment, you know, instead of through Zoom calls and all. You also see that that innovation is back being prioritized after the survival mode of the last few years. People are coming back out of their shells and getting creative again. It’s gonna be a lot of fun moving forward.

Jessica Warden: Yeah. For sure.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. And I feel like the momentum has kept since the show. I don’t know if you guys feel the same way, but it feels like it’s been very busy. Totally. You know, we’re still having this we’re, you know, continuing the conversations that we started to have with the people who we met at the show. And that’s the whole goal. To go there and develop these relationships and to, in effect, be the company that can solve the problem that they’re looking for.

Jessica Warden: Put names to faces, that kind of thing. Right.

Zach Schwindt: Meet the people who you speak with on a weekly basis, but you don’t necessarily see them every day, you know? So, yeah, just being there to help, you know, even if we are in a position to offer a service or an ingredient, we love to connect people to a friend in the industry who can help or, you know, at the end of the day, it’s rewarding to be just a resource for people, whatever that looks like. So Yeah.

Garrett McBride: It feels good to help.

Zach Schwindt: I encourage people. Yeah. I encourage people to reach out to Smirk’s even if you just wanna pick our brains or pitch a project to us or let us know what you’re working on. You can always call us or email us at whatsnew@smirks.com.

Jessica Warden: Yeah, definitely.

Garrett McBride: Very cool. That was a ton of fun. I appreciate you both joining today. That was a good conversation. And it’s fun to recap these things because it was such an overload of products and concepts and innovation and just cool stuff all around. So neat to download in this sort of a forum. We’re not quite done here. In our next product feature segment, we’re going to explore the ingredients found on various Expo West product ingredient decks.

Garrett McBride: In particular, we’re going to explore the category of gluten free baked goods. So stay tuned for more content. Thanks, guys.

Product Feature

Garrett McBride: Welcome to the Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast product features segment, highlighting ingredients from Expo West 2024. This year, we continue to see innovative products within the gluten free baked goods category, both sweet and savory items. Jessica and Zach are back with me, and we’re going to highlight some of the specific items on gluten free baked good ingredient decks from Expo West that we offer here at Smirk’s. Jessica, you wanna kick it off?

Jessica Warden: Absolutely. Alternate flours were all over the ingredient decks at expo, and I think we see that at a lot of the shows that we go to that lends well to the customer base we work with. So we break them down a lot of times into customers that are nut based gluten free flours, that are looking for seed based, that are looking just for complete alternatives that are more for the binding agents and and that kind of thing. So or maybe a blend of all 3. There’s chewy something for everything in the allergen friendly bakery arena. Let’s take baked crackers as an example. This is a huge category that is sometimes overlooked because I feel like crackers are just such a everybody’s they’ve been around the block a time or 2, but it seems like there’s some really cool innovation happening with crackers, especially because of these alternative flours. So, it maybe was a snack that people couldn’t traditionally enjoy, and and now they can.

Jessica Warden: So there was a lot of companies at expo that were using single or combination of ingredients. Like organic banana flour is actually a really interesting one that we’ve seen pop up. And buckwheat flour, I had this cracker that was like buckwheat flour mixed with some cranberries, and, I ate it, honestly expecting it to not taste great. And, it was one of my favorite snacks, actually. So I am now gonna go out of my way to be a consumer of such, cracker now. So and then head flour, cassava flour, arrowroot powder. We often see potato starch and rice flour. And then, of course, gluten free oats and oat flour are widely used as well.

Jessica Warden: I don’t know. Do you guys have any cracker insights from the show? Do you guys see anything that you thought?

Garrett McBride: I saw what you did where, generally, I expected them to taste.

Jessica Warden: 1 at a time, guys. 1 at a time.

Garrett McBride: I agree with you. I expected these crackers, you know, most of these exotic blends of gluten free ingredients to taste not so great.

Jessica Warden: Cardboard. I think cardboard is the word.

Garrett McBride: But they’ve done a fantastic job of making the product taste fantastic using these alternative flours. So it’s the industry’s come a long way. The category’s come a long way.

Jessica Warden: Yeah. Definitely. Zach, you were saying?

Zach Schwindt: I thought seeds were very involved with flour or, seed flours were very common in crackers that I saw. So

Jessica Warden: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Well, and the cool thing about the trends that we’re seeing is Smirk’s is really aligned with a lot of these items already. We are already importing them. We’re already working with domestic processors on them. We have a lot of great milling partners. We can do both organic and conventional.

Jessica Warden: We do a lot with chickpea flour, almond flour, cashew flour, macadamia nut flour, milled sunflower. We have a really cool, like, nitro milled option. We actually had a podcast already once with our partners that make that. Milled flax, milled chia. And what’s cool about some of these flours is you can actually you know, to Zach’s point before about the protein, you know, heavy or protein dense options is some of these are whole milled, so it’s the entire seed or entire, you know, whatever ingredient is milled. And other times, it’s actually oils pressed out for other applications, and then they take that cake that’s left over and they further process it. And so, it’s a flour consistency, but it’s super high in protein. So that one of our strong suits is finding out what a customer actually needs for their ingredient.

And so whether it’s singly or in combination or they’re looking for gluten free cookies, cakes, muffins, snack bars, even breads, pizza doughs, we really have a lot of ingredients that can help out with those things.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. And I think the allergen friendly world is very diverse. So, you know, that means some baked goods steer clear of nuts, but embrace the vast world of seeds, for example. And seeds are a mainstay ingredient used, you know, in breads, cakes, cookies, snack bars, muffins, and of course, granolas. Smirk’s offers a wide range of organic and non GMO seeds, including chia seeds, sesame, pumpkin, flax, sunflower, and poppy seeds. We also have condensed

Jessica Warden: Actually interrupt you there too, Zach, and say that now that Sesame has been introduced as an allergen, we have processing facilities that we’ve kinda gone out of our way to where we can still service that ingredient and help with that ingredient, but also still be mindful of that allergen and be able to get some of these other seeds from a processing line and a processing facility that are sesame free or have these really strict allergen protocols in place. So, it’s been a new thing as of, you know, 2023 is kind of we’ve seen all that change come, and Smirk’s is pretty well versed and prepared for that.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. And I mean, if you’re buying chia seeds and you need your product to be allergen free, you wanna make sure there’s sesame not being processed in the same facility.

Garrett McBride: Yep, we can do that.

Zach Schwindt: And we offer both raw and ready to eat seeds. And the ready to eat is are seeds that have already went through like a sterilization process. So, for example, if your process includes baking or roasting, you don’t necessarily need ready to eat, but let’s say you have a salad and you’re putting some sunflower seeds on the top. That would be an example of wanting a ready to eat product. If you’re looking for seed butters, Smirk’s is also very strong in seed butters as well. We also have pumpkin butter and sunflower butter as well, so.

Jessica Warden: Yeah. Zach, to your point, we also see a lot of organic and conventional non-GMO nut and nut butters used in baked goods pretty widely as well. So, Smirk’s also has that very well lined up in our supply chains. Our nut and nut butter offerings usually include almonds, Brazil nuts, cashews, hazelnuts, peanut, pecan, macadamias, pistachios, pine nuts, walnuts, really just a huge variety of it. And just like the seeds, we have processors that can offer something that’s gone through, you know, a validated kill step or something that is raw. Again, depending on the application, you know, we’ll look to give our customers the cost savings where they don’t need an RT because they already have that built into their own supply chain processes, or we’re able to help steer them in the direction of, here’s this RTE solution that doesn’t have to be handled multiple times because it’s already been taken care of at origin. And so, if you aren’t sure about what kind of application you need, what kind of size of item you need, A lot of times, you can get a lower grade for butter applications and save some money. So, our team is pretty well versed.

And if you kind of give us an idea of what you’re working on, we can help you figure out the best fit from that standpoint.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. And dried fruits as well. You know, some that’s added to a variety of baked goods, muffins, cookies, granolas.

Jessica Warden: For sure.

Zach Schwindt: So, adding organic and conventional non GMO dried fruits creates both textural gives a textural component, and also gives, you know, different flavors.

Jessica Warden: Yeah.

Zach Schwindt: We offer, you know, your, your staple dried fruits for your baking projects, such as cranberries, blueberries, cherries, and raisins. We also work with a lot of imported tropical fruits. Yeah. Such as, golden berries, goji berries, pineapple, mango. We also work with apples. Almost any fruit that you’d be looking for, we can source. So, and those both come in dried formats and fruit powders as well.

Jessica Warden: Well, I’ll also throw out there kind of tied in with the fruits that we can import. We sometimes have customers who are looking for very origin the origin specific. Right? They want it from a non-Chinese origin or they specifically want it from a Chinese origin, and so we’re very good at being able to bring in those types of items from multiple supply chains. So, if it’s a origin that you’re looking for or a price point you’re looking for, we can usually kind of approach it from a couple different ways. And then kind of in that same vein of the fruit, going back to the natural sweeteners that we discussed, they’re definitely a hot topic right now. We see a lot of baked goods brands that are steering away from cane sugar. Smirk’s  can offer full lineup of alternative sweeteners. Our strongest by far is coconut sugar and coconut nectar.

Jessica Warden: But there are certainly other categories that we can help with, like date paste and date powder and sugar that as well as maple sugar, maple syrup, and even agave. And, again, a lot of those you can get in both formats, whether it’s the liquid or the powdered format. And so, basically, we just worked with a lot of brands that are still wanting to introduce that level of sweetness to their products, but they’re still glycemically friendly. I don’t know if glycemically is a word, but

Zach Schwindt: It’s now.

Jessica Warden: If it’s not, it is today. It is now. So, what do you think about that, Zach?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. No. I completely agree. You know, I think many baked goods are not complete without coconut as well.

Jessica Warden: I happen to know a company that imports a lot of coconut. Do you, Zach?

Zach Schwindt: I think so.

Garrett McBride: Well, I’ve heard of these guys. Yeah.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. So many made goods are not complete without coconut. You know, we mentioned coconut oil, but desiccated coconut is also big, you know, in bakery form. Smirk’s offers a full range of coconut specs to choose from, including chips, medium, macaroon. We offer liquid versions like coconut milk, coconut cream.

Jessica Warden: Right.

Zach Schwindt: So, yeah, let us know what your coconut needs are. We’re very into the world of coconut, so

Garrett McBride: Yep. That’s an important one. Outstanding. Well, that wraps up our product feature for our special Expo West 2024 episode. If you happen to be working on a new or existing project involving gluten free baking, please feel free to reach out to Smirk’s for product information, spec sheets, pricing, samples. Shout at us anytime using the whatsnew@smirks.com email. Thanks again for listening. Appreciate you.

Garrett McBride: And stay tuned for our market report in the next segment. You don’t wanna miss out on the latest updates.

April Market Report

Donny Edson: Get the scoop with Smirk’s April market update. There’s a lot going on right now, so we were gonna cover several things today. I’m gonna start by just talking a little bit about international freight. Still, we have several issues to take into account right now. The Red Sea is still causing a lot of delays and shipment delays, particularly to the East Coast. We’re having a hard time getting bookings out of several countries as well right now. If we have contracted rates with carriers, we might be at the end of the contract, or other people might be at the end of the contract, and the carriers are trying to fill the rest of their contracts that they have as we’re getting ready to enter into the new contract season. So that’s causing delays as well.

Donny Edson: We’re also seeing slowdowns in the ports. The East Coast port slowed down a little bit because of what happened with Baltimore with the ship hitting the bridge there and just causing more delays on the East Coast as well. So, plan, planning ahead right now. Nothing is certain in the international freight. On a good note, we did sign our new contracts, which begin in May with ocean carriers. We saw minimal price increases from last year, which is a big relief considering what happened the last few months when prices started to shoot up. However, there’s still not enough international demand for shipments to really keep the prices super high. So that was a relief to see that the rates weren’t that much higher than they were last year.

Donny Edson: So that’s good. One other thing to take into account right now that’s causing delays is the new rules with shipment of organic items and the need of the NOP import certificate which has to be filed with customs before you can pick your product from inside of the port. This went into effect in the middle of March, a lot of people are still trying to navigate it. A lot of people are having issues getting the NOP certificates from their certifying bodies.

Donny Edson: We’re having a lot of issues, especially around Ramadan right now too with getting these, and that’s causing our containers to sit in the port until we get the documentation to be able to clear customs with it because it’s now required by the law that you have the NOP import certificate on anything organic coming into the country. So that’s also causing some issues.

Donny Edson: So on to what’s happening around the US right now, all these delays in shipments in a combination with people been running tighter inventories and a combination with everybody not really sure how to forecast right now, they’re making inventories get really tight in the US. Several items are hard to get, and the spot market has picked up considerably. Importers are working with other importers a lot right now to try to keep stuff in stock. We’re taking a lot of phone calls for items right now. We don’t anticipate that slowing down at all. So overall, things are getting tighter, so do plan ahead and really work with your suppliers to have a good plan in place.

Donny Edson: So, jumping into the items right now that we’re following very closely. Everyone’s been talking about El Nino for over a year now. Really, we’re seeing the effect globally with El Nino, whether you’re watching the coconut market, other items right now. Really, what we thought was gonna happen last year is really happening right now. So, things are getting really hard, and prices are going up. Inventories are getting tight. So, the first one we talk about is coconut. Desiccated coconut’s gonna be an issue, which is strange to think about considering how much was available a few months ago in the US.

Donny Edson: Packers around the globe are booked into August, particularly in the Philippines are booked into August, and they’re already having delays. Some of them are running their factories less days a week because they can’t get the raw material to process the coconut. So, we’re seeing delays anywhere from 6 to 8 weeks right now, both out of the Philippines and out of Indonesia. Interestingly enough, another thing that’s adding to this is China’s demand for coconut milk. They really like coconut milk in China, and so they’re doing anything they can to keep coconut milk. One supplier in Indonesia told us that one day, a bunch of ships showed up from China, and they went to the farmers, bought all the coconuts for cash from the farmers, took all the raw supply, filled the ships up, sailed back to China, which immediately drove the price up for the coconut and took all the raw material, which is starting to add to the delays and the increases in prices. That’s just one example from one origin of something that’s happening. We’re seeing prices increase anywhere from 40 to 70% depending on the origin and depending on the grade.

Donny Edson: If you’re not covered through the end of the year on coconut, you should get covered immediately. With the packers being booked into August, that really means that if you’re not covered, you need to be on those bookings into August right now to have inventory to come to take care of you in the Q4 this year. Another issue is, coconut sugar. As we’re preparing to come out of Ramadan, packers in Indonesia are very concerned about the lack of raw materials that are available to process. Typically, they like to try to stock up a little bit. So, when they come out of Ramadan, they ask some stuff to process, and they haven’t been able to get any raw material. Most packers are offering new shipments only in June July forward with limited availability. Stocks in the USA are getting very tight, and the spot market is getting tight as well.

Donny Edson: We’re getting increased daily for truckloads of coconut sugar, and it’s getting tighter and tighter. So, we expect the shortages to happen and carry on throughout the summertime until the stuff they start to ship in June July finds its way to the US. Coconut oil, prices have risen anywhere from 20 to 30% depending on if it’s VCO or RBD coconut oil. The demand in the USA has been very high as many people have delayed shipments both from the issues from the packers, but also the delays from the Red Sea. So, the bottlers are trying to get anything they can to keep the retail shelves full. We don’t anticipate the coconut oil price to correct itself for quite some time. Everything in coconut seems that it’s gonna remain firm and tight right now. So please plan ahead, get yourself covered on that.

Donny Edson: Another item we’ve been watching very closely is organic cashews. I’m speaking in regards to organic more than I am about conventional, but there has been a lot of demand for cashews. Organic cashews are quickly firming up as packers in Vietnam have little inventory to process, and new crop is arriving very slow to the plants. In the last week, we’ve seen some packers come off the market for whole grades as they wanna wait and see what happens. There are concerns of a short crop. No one really knows for sure if when the new crop shipments do arrive, the market might settle itself and correct a little bit. But we can tell you that 2 of the suppliers we work with are fully booked this year on their broken grades and whole grades already. So, we do expect this market to stay firm and to get tight.

Donny Edson: Another one that’s firmed up, again, very ironic because last year, we were talking about what great deals there were on macadamia nuts. But China continues to buy any in shell they can get, and this is adding pressure to the market daily. It’s been really hard to get firm offers and have them held for a period of time from any origin on the macadamia nuts, and a lot of the suppliers are booked way out right now. We saw price increases of 10% in the last week on style ones. There is little inventory in the market in the US right now as well. So, we anticipate macadamia nuts to remain very firm. Another one everyone’s talking about is Brazil nuts. Everyone’s anxious for the new crop to arrive.

Donny Edson: There’s a lot of people asking for these, especially on the organic side, and this is adding a lot of noise in the market. But rest assured, new crop will start sailing in the coming weeks, and this should help settle down all the increase that people are seeing on these. However, prices are much higher this year than they were last year. And it could remain at these levels for quite a while until the markets filled up. We have harvest happening in India for a couple items right now. 1st, we’ll speak about is amaranth because that’s an item we ran out of last year from India. They ran out of organic amaranth to ship. The new crop was very good, and it’s just starting to ship out of India.

Donny Edson: Prices have dropped anywhere from 20 to 25% from where they were at, and this is very welcome news in the US. We’ll see the new crop, Amaranth, starting to arrive in the US probably sometime around June. But prices should be a little bit more stable this year. India will be less expensive than the South American stuff is, and things should be more a little bit more normal than amaranth. It’s just gonna be probably closer to the Q3 when this happens. So also, organic flax. A lot of the packers ran out of product to ship from India and, maybe overcommitted themselves as well. So, they’ve been anxiously awaiting for the new crop of organic flax to come in.

Donny Edson: Prices are pretty stable right now, but a lot of them said the crop is smaller, and they do anticipate the prices to increase throughout the summertime. So that would be a good one to work with your suppliers on to make sure you’re getting covered for the organic flax if you’re using the stuff out of India. We can tell you that in Canada right now, North America, some packers are out of organic flax. They’re out of organic golden flax as well, and some of them are 6 to 8 weeks out on production time as well. Smirk’s does have organic golden flax arriving in May from Turkey. So, if you do need some of that, let us know. Next item is chia. So, most of the suppliers in South America are sold out of the 2023 crop, and there’s very little material left in South America that’s not committed or shipping right now.

Donny Edson: So, we’re working to handle a planting happening in March in South America and in Paraguay. However, it was very, very hot, and a lot of the people down there and farmers have said they had to replant the chia afterwards. And then it did rain, which helps a little bit, but everybody’s concerned about how hot it still is down there. The replanting really means that the crop could be late. And the risk that comes with that is that you do increase the risk of hitting a frost. So, we need to just kinda watch and see what happens. This was the same topic last year, almost identical to last year, and everything worked out just fine, and they had a great crop. I think one other difference right now compared to the last couple years in chia is there is a large stock of chia available in the US right now.

Donny Edson: A lot of importers have extra inventory, including Smirk’s, to kinda weather the storm. So, there’s not gonna be this huge surge of pressure come harvest time that we need to ship stuff to get stuff into stock. It should be a little bit smoother, and that should keep the market a little bit more stable as long as mother nature doesn’t have any influences on the crop down there. The last item I really want to talk about today is pumpkin seeds out of China. So, the Shine Skin pumpkin seeds, the conventional crop, there’s, there was a surge in demand, and it’s quieted down quite a bit in China and globally, for that matter. So, and there seems to be enough supply available that we shouldn’t see any issues. There are talks that the crop could be very big this year. We’re just getting into the planting season.

Donny Edson: So, we’ll have more updates on our next market update with what we’re hearing about what’s actually being planted there. But all in all, the market softened a little bit on the conventional side, so we’re not super worried about the conventional side. Organics, however, that is one that we are watching very closely. The crop was smaller, and it’s firming up weekly, really, from China right now. Some packers are completely sold out of the organic a grade, and some packers have told us that they only have a few containers left of organic double a. So, it’s highly recommended to cover yourself through December with your suppliers to just ensure that you have enough product until the new crop arrives. Generally, the new crop starts being processed sometime in October. Add on 6 to 8 weeks to get in, and that’s it’s usually January when you start to see the new crop come into the country.

Donny Edson: So do get yourself covered on your needs through December right now on the organic side. On the conventional side, maybe not quite as necessary to cover that far out because the price has been stable for the last couple weeks on that. So, thanks for listening to our April market update. If you have any questions, hit us up at whatsnew@smirks.com 

Garrett McBride: So that’s it for this episode of Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast, where we bring you the latest market reports, insights into bulk ingredients and their origins, as well as in-depth product information. So, if you have any questions, feedback, or just want a sample to taste for yourself, visit the smirks.com website or email us at whatsnew@smirks.com. Never miss a future episode. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks so much for tuning in.

The post Transcript: Expo West 2024 Recap & Product Focus: Gluten Free Bakery Ingredients appeared first on Bulk Ingredient Network.

Garrett McBride: Hey, there. Welcome to Get the Scoop with Smirk’s Podcast, where bulk ingredient conversation happens. We’re sharing our knowledge and expertise as bulk ingredient importers, tapping into the latest trends we are seeing and commenting on what that means for natural food businesses as they approach ingredient purchasing, product development, and marketing. You’ll hear the latest market reports, ingredient specifications, and product applications from Smirk’s in-house experts, as well as origin stories from our growers and processors around the world. Listen in for the scoop on what’s happening with bulk ingredients.

Elisa Louis: Hello again to our wonderful listeners, and happy new year. Welcome back to another exciting episode of get the scoop with Smirk’s. I’m Elisa Lewis, and I’m cohosting today with Donny Edson. We’re really excited to delve into the world of organics with none other than the experts themselves. That’s right. We have Adrienne Messe and Scott Rice from the Organic Trade Association joining us today to share about the important work the OTA does and the valuable support and service it offers its members. On the regulatory side, we’ll For the new strengthening organic enforcement, so you can expect to gain some key takeaways in preparation for the March 19th deadline. And if your business profits in any way, shape, or form with organic products, you’re gonna wanna tune in.

We’ll also learn some great insights about organic Trends that the OTA has uncovered through their member survey and SPINS Nielsen data. And even if you’re on the fence about pursuing organic products, You’re gonna wanna listen in to find out valuable resources available to help you, including the OTA’s insider tips on how to select an organic certifier.

Donny Edson: Adrienne and Scott, we’re honored to have you here. Welcome to our podcast. I believe because the script says so, this is our 10th podcast. So you’ve helped us enter into double digits. Could you share a little bit about your roles at the OTA and a little bit about your professional background? Adrienne, could you start us off?

Adrienne Messe: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Donny and Elisa. We are so excited to be on your podcast today, so thanks first for hosting us. And thanks also for having this podcast. I think it’s a really cool resource that you’ve created for the industry And for your partners, so thanks for doing it. Thanks for having us. So I manage all of OTA’s event engagement, In person events and virtual opportunities. So we host some events, but then we also have strategic planning around other industry events that we engage in.

Adrienne Messe: Areas where organic community is showing up, organic conversations are happening, or areas where agriculture is being discussed, And we wanna make sure that organic is a piece of that conversation too. So our events are really focused on bringing the organic community together. It’s a pretty close knit Community in general. We really want to grow and protect organic from all stakeholder perspectives. So A big goal of ours overall is to grow the organic audience and include new diverse stakeholder perspectives so that we can continue to meet the needs Of the future of the organic industry. Because it’ll be different tomorrow than it is today as it was different yesterday, as we all know. So OTA hosts a few events. 1 of our one of our biggest events, our biggest event is organic week in Washington, DC.

Adrienne Messe: And that is an annual conference to bring the organic community together in 2024. It’s going to be taking place May 14 through 16th In Washington DC, it’s a 3 day conference. We have 2 days of conference programming, touching on topics are relevant to the industry, and then we have one day of hill visits. So we organize hundreds of meetings across the hill for our members that are in DC. So it’s really an inspiring Week to bring together all the different missions of our industry and our trade association in person in DC. So it’s really a cool week. You don’t have to be a member to join that, so anyone listening is welcome.

Donny Edson: Can I ask about how many people come to that?

Adrienne Messe: Couple 100. There’s usually, I’d say, 300 people that are there in person for the event. So like I said, you know, the organic community is a close knit group, but it is growing and changing. So We have a lot of long standing participants who come every year and continue to bring more members of their team, but we also have new members that are joining And bringing into the fold. The cool thing about hosting it in DC is that we get to really draw from those local policymaker Connections that are there local in DC and can attend in person too. So Cool. About about 300 people, conference setting, But we keep you busy for that 3 days. It’s conference programming all day long and then evening receptions too.

Adrienne Messe: So one event that we host As a part of organic week is our leadership awards celebration. So it is inspiring to get the whole community together to do work, but it’s also important to recognize the leaders in the industry that are really helping to make change and grow the industry. So we have our leadership we’ll be handing out.

Donny Edson: Is that when you do the Lifetime Achievement Award stuff?

Adrienne Messe: Yeah. Yeah. There’s 5 awards this year. We added a few new into the mix as well. So we have 5 awards that we’ll be giving out. And again, it really is inspiring. Like, we’re busy all day working on the the tough work of policy and government affairs. And then to come together and look back at, okay, we’re all making a difference here, and that’s important to celebrate too.

Adrienne Messe: And so it’s cool that we do that during our Our main OTA event in DC every year.

Donny Edson: Awesome. I filled out a nomination letter for someone who I can’t sit Nice. On here because we don’t know what’s gonna happen with it. So Right. I may have to come this year. So yeah.

Adrienne Messe: Thank you for nominating someone. It’s it’s really important, I think, for all of our members to kinda come together and participate in that nomination process, so thanks for keeping an eye on those messages.

Scott Rice: I’m sure

Adrienne Messe: you’ve received a lot and submitting a nomination, so thanks. I’ll also just mention too, you know, aside from those events that we host like organic week, we also There’s hundreds of events in the agriculture industry in general. So we have a presence at a lot of those industry events too where organic is on the agenda or should be on the agenda. And so we’re kind of working round the clock to make sure that we can prioritize those opportunities too. And Like you guys have noticed through this podcast, you can reach a lot of people virtually. So we also have 1 or 2 webinars a month To be able to be reactive to those industry topics that come up and serve our members. So with that, I’ll pass to Scott.

Scott Rice: Thanks, Elisa and Donny. So happy to join you here. Just a big second on, Adrienne’s description of organic week. As a previous Attendee, before I was on staff, I was always super impressed with how well it’s put together and fun to be a part of it and looking forward to joining everybody in May for this coming year edition. I joined the team at at OTA as a regulatory director in June of last year, Coming most recently from the Washington State Department of Agriculture’s, organic certification program. When I was there, I was involved in a lot of Facts of certification and regulatory and policy issues, input material review, accreditation and quality management. I often say that the regulatory world is all sort of the wonky bits that you may not see on the face of a product at the grocery store. But In the end, it all adds up to ensuring the integrity of the organic label and giving consumers, that organic product that they expect.

Scott Rice: My organic career started on a mixed vegetable farm in Northern California and continued with, kind of a big dive into More wonky bits, the material review at the Organic Materials Review Institute. Did some small farm direct marketing in the Puget say, Excuse me. Puget Sound in New Zealand. Also, served a term on the National Organic Standards Board representing certifiers there. Here at OTA, do a lot of what I’ve done in my career as Regulatory Director. I assist our members Navigating that regulatory landscape, as it relates to and kind of impacts organic production. I help troubleshoot Domestic and international trade issues, develop resources for members. Adrienne’s gonna talk a lot more about kind of what we do.

Scott Rice: And do all that so that, members can help better understand and comply with what those regulatory requirements are and really kind of navigate that successfully. There’s always a ton going on in this industry And at our organization, you know, in the last year, we’ve seen some pretty significant rules passed. We’ve had the strengthening organic enforcement rule. It’s the most extensive update to USDA organic regulations since, their passage More than 20 years ago. We’re going to talk a lot more about that in the coming time here together. And we also saw the long awaited organic livestock and poultry standards rule, which We were very pleased to see and clarifies a lot of important, production standards when it comes to livestock. And Most importantly, allowing or ensuring that organic animals always have outdoor access. Even outside these big years, We always track what’s happening.

Scott Rice: There’s regular cycles of the National Organic Standards Board, which is the 15 member volunteer group That sets the standards with USDA of what organic means. And we’re always keeping an eye out For developments in other agencies that might impact members in the trade, there’s never dull moment and that’s what makes it Fun and and exciting. So great industry to be in.

Elisa Louis: No doubt about it, Scott. Thanks so much to you both for those intros. Really appreciate that. And, hey, Scott. You know, being from Seattle, it’s pretty cool to have a fellow northwest person on the podcast today, so Kudos to the northwest.

Scott Rice: Happy to happy to represent.

Adrienne Messe: Right. We’re all over the map on this

Elisa Louis: place today. Adrienne, Where are you podcasting from?

Adrienne Messe: I’m our East Coast representation. I live in Vermont.

Elisa Louis: And we got Donny in good old Fort Morgan, Colorado. Alright. Well, hey, let’s get going here. So, Adrienne, could you tell our listeners kind of who are unfamiliar with the organization A bit more about the mission of the OTA, who you primarily serve, and a brief overview of the types of services, support, and You’ve talked about some of the events, but get into it a little bit for us so people can understand what you do for your members.

Adrienne Messe: Definitely. There’s a lot of associations out there, to be honest, in the agriculture industry or just for general business development, so It’s totally understandable. I think if people are a little confused about who’s who, what exactly they’re doing, who they should go to for what questions, who are partners in the industry. So we totally understand that and are are happy happy to explain that further. So our mission at the Organic Trade Association is to grow and protect organic With a unifying voice that serves and engages its diverse members from farm to marketplace. And as Scott alluded to, There’s never a dull moment. It’s a busy industry and there’s a lot of different stakeholders involved. So our membership really is quite diverse.

Adrienne Messe: We work with growers, farmers, Shippers, processors, certifying agencies, associations, retailers, distributors, All the above. We work with all stakeholders in organic. And we really value that because everyone’s perspective Is a little different, but we need to make sure that we do have a unifying voice of all aspects of the industry, opportunities, and challenges So that we can all continue to thrive and grow and meet the needs of the future, which are different than today. So we we really work hard to Make sure that we are growing that perspective and including diverse stakeholder perspectives in the conversation. So Aside from the fact that we are so we are a trade association. We do you pay dues to our association in order to be a member, But really, we’re representing all of the operations that are certified to the USDA standard because the work that we do on policy, government affairs Implicates everybody who is behind that standard. So we’re really representing all of the operations in the industry. I wanna Call out to the organic center.

Adrienne Messe: So like I just said a 2nd ago, there’s so many organizations out there. It’s hard to keep them straight. We have a nonprofit Arm of our organization, and that’s called the organic center. So sometimes you’ll see that logo also, but that’s really our research arm. They’re a separate nonprofit, but they’re under our auspices. And that’s our our research branch. So we’re working constantly to partner with research into institutions and other service providers and associations to make sure that we’re collaborating on research and Conducting new research to make sure that we can have data to support the growth of the industry moving forward. So I always just wanna call that out About the organic center because people are like, is that you? Are they different? And it’s kind of both.

Adrienne Messe: So in terms of Services and support that we offer to our members, there’s a lot. We’re doing a lot all the time. But that’s great because you can always find An aspect that’s going to help support your business or a place where you can see your voice represented. Government affairs and policy work is really a big part of what we do. The farm bill, as many people know, is the biggest piece of agriculture legislation, and it’s updated every 5 years. So that’s really the biggest and best opportunity for increased funding to support the growth of the industry. That farm bill is $428,000,000,000, And only 0.1% of that is dedicated to organic specific programs. And that 0.1% is about a half a $1,000,000,000.

Adrienne Messe: So it’s a lot, but there’s a lot of room for growth there. And we work with offices on the hill year round. So I mentioned we Organize a lot of 1 on 1 meetings on the Hill during organic week, but year round, we have a presence in DC to Have constant conversations about organic in hill offices so they can understand the economic impact, the growth opportunities, and the areas to support The industry, all leading up to the farm bill. Every year we’ve been able to increase every 5 years we’ve been able to increase funding for organic in the farm bill, and that’s a huge success. And it’s also just something we can’t miss the boat on because 5 years will go by, and we need it to to increase every time and then continue to facilitate those programs. So continuous improvement is really the core of the USDA organic label. It’s was the whole purpose of establishing a national standard Is to make sure that there is consistency and accountability with people that are certified. So a big piece of work that we’re really proud of recently is The Continuous Improvement and Accountability and Organic Standards Act.

Adrienne Messe: OTA was able to spearhead the largest organic Coalition in recent history to support this bill, and it’s really focused on adding that transparency and accountability to that federal regulatory process To make sure that USDA is acting in a timely manner, in a transparent way. So that was A big policy piece that we were successful in recently. Another really important aspect of our advocacy work is regulatory, which is really Scott’s Bread and butter, and he’s gonna be able to elaborate on all of this a lot more today. But the takeaway is that Or USD organic is the only label claim on the market. You know, we’re all shoppers. We see now that you look at a label on any product on any aisle of the Grocery store and there’s a lot of label claims now, a lot of words on that front panel, and it’s hard to know what means what. But the USDA organic label is the only one That is federally enforced with third party verification. So because of that, it does take constant attention to make sure that the standards behind that label are really being enforced, and everyone’s accountable to what that really means.

Adrienne Messe: So Scott mentioned the National Organic Standards Board, which he served in his past, which is awesome. The and but for people who aren’t in this work every day, Everyone’s familiar with the USDA, most likely. The National Organic Program is the division within the USDA that focuses on organic. But the reason that there’s the National Organic Standards Board is to make sure that there’s that additional advisory board of people that are really representing The true interest in stakeholders of organic to advise those policymakers in DC. So it’s really a pretty cool system set up to make sure that there’s not only Policymakers in Washington writing organic policy, but there’s really actual stakeholders within the industry able to advise on that board as the decisions are being made. So we’re a part of those conversations. Our staff, Scott, you know, and is attending those meetings twice a year so that we make sure that we’re representing our members’ interest in those conversations as they pan out. So it’s a huge benefit of being a member of Organic Trade Association is that you have a direct line to those conversations, not only As the conversations are happening so that we can defend and protect everyone’s interests, but also when things are released, we can help you Kinda digest what that means and help you make sure that you’re becoming compliant.

Adrienne Messe: So Scott is gonna talk a lot more today about the strengthening organic enforcement rule, Which is, like he said, the biggest update to the standard since they started. But we were a part of those discussions the entire time they were being written, which is definitely helpful now as people are trying to become compliant by March. So this regulatory work is really a big Part of what we do and a huge benefit to being an OTA member. Few other things to to note about our membership, I keep saying that we have A lot of diverse stakeholder opinions included. So we have groups that we call member communities within our membership because, As you can imagine, a grain supplier questions or challenges are gonna be different than that of a dairy company or that of a produce company. Within our membership, we have opportunities for you to collaborate on sector specific conversations. These groups you would usually meet quarterly, And there’s really a lot of helpful collaboration that can happen within those and a lot of like minded business owners that are probably experiencing maybe the same thing as you, And it can help to kind of bounce those ideas off each other. So another piece of those member communities is our task forces.

Adrienne Messe: So sometimes things come up in the industry and a few members are like, this is an issue, or we really need to figure out a solution to this that’s gonna serve organic. And so our members come together and collaborate in really cool ways through these task forces. Most recently, we had this really cool toolkit that we launched And it was created through a task force. So many people have maybe heard of our organic opportunity communications toolkit, and it’s a data driven toolkit that helps Our members effectively educate about the requirements of organic and also the attributes. So The work came about because some of our members were meeting with big retailers like Walmart and Amazon who have Climate smart purchasing, you know, they each have a different name for it, but it’s basically in their platforms you can choose, I just wanna purchase products that are climate smart. USC organic wasn’t included in that. And we know, of course, that organic is the original climate smart agriculture. But in hearing that Experience from our members in having these retailer conversations, we realized that there’s an opportunity to educate because clearly they didn’t understand Why they should be prioritizing organic on their shelves, and then in turn why shoppers should be purchasing those products from their shelves.

Adrienne Messe: So we created this toolkit Specifically for those retailer conversations, but our members have really taken it and run with it. So they’re really able to take The science behind organic and the specific attributes about why organic is good for people, good for business, good for the planet, And really translate their brand story in that lens and further communicate in their meetings with partners to Advocate for organic and educate about what it means. So it’s a really cool resource that now so many of our members are using, and it came about because a few of our members were able to get together and create a solution. So there’s a lot of opportunity for that within our membership.

Elisa Louis: Oh, that’s awesome. And, Adrienne, Just a question on that. Yeah. Does that give them, like, some key bullet points, visuals? What does that toolkit kinda look like?

Adrienne Messe: Yeah. So it’s a pretty comprehensive toolkit, and there’s a lot of templates within it. So I mentioned the organic center is our research arm. And they so we use all the data, the science behind organic through the research, through the organic center to have some key attributes. So we actually have Within the toolkit, an organic wheel of sustainability that is a circle like a wheel. Yeah. And it has USD organic in the center. And then it has 3 sections.

Adrienne Messe: Good for people, good for planet, and good for business. And then further from there, it takes it and outlines About like 6 or so attributes of each of those. So instead of saying, you know, organic is good for the planet, businesses can say organic helps To sequester carbon or it helps with soil biodiversity. And so you can really understand A little bit more of a tangible impact, and then also attribute some of that data in your own brand story through the templates that we have. So Our members are really able to use those templates, insert their own information, but have it all be tying back to the attributes of organic.

Elisa Louis: Oh, I love it. Very cool.

Adrienne Messe: Yeah. It really is awesome, and it’s helpful that that template now exists because I think There’s a lot of education that needs to happen on every level with retailers, with consumers, with all member supply chains. So as much as we can get this information out there and educate the people who are in the decision making positions to put organic on the shelves is a benefit to all of us. So it’s helpful that this toolkit now exists for everyone in the industry to utilize.

Scott Rice: We’ve seen some of our members really use it as a jumping off point for, some pretty fun marketing campaigns and really engaging visuals, and as Adrienne said, just really put some tangible benefits In, real plain language and kinda you can grasp organic and and all that it offers beyond just A seal.

Elisa Louis: Yeah. Oh, fantastic. Even though it’s been around for so long, it feels like you’ve kind of breathe new life into it. What that seal really means.

Adrienne Messe: Well, and I think it helps educate it like, you know, it helps educate at every level also in the face of the other label claims out there. Yep. There are actual proven scientific points of the benefits behind organic, and there’s data around that. And the other label claims don’t have that as much. There’s a lot of greenwashing that happens in the industry, and we’re not in the game of pointing fingers at anybody else, but we are in the game of and promoting and defending what organic does mean because it does mean something. A few as a few other things I wanna call out about OTA membership. I could go on and on and on forever.

Donny Edson: I don’t

Adrienne Messe: know if you Tell, but there’s a lot of different aspects of our membership that are benefiting the whole industry and our members. And I think our diversity entrepreneurship program deserves a special shout out. So food systems and social injustices are deeply linked, And we recognize that history, and we’re also consciously working to not perpetuate those inequalities in the industry. So we have created Our diversity program, we extend complimentary membership to BIPOC and women owned businesses through our diversity and entrepreneurship fund. And then we work 1 on 1 with those businesses to make sure that their needs are being met and there’s no barriers to them being successful in organic. Sometimes the organic message doesn’t reach all audiences, but it is our mission to make sure that we are meeting people where they’re at in their learning journey And also helping them to source solutions to their challenges. So it’s been a really successful program. We’ve been able to Bring a lot of really awesome businesses and organizations into the fold through this.

Adrienne Messe: We also launched a diversity resource library, which is A library that houses BIPOC speakers, influencers, partners, farmers, media professionals, so that We can support BIPOC businesses in all areas of our projects. And so that’s a resource, is a library that’s available to anyone. If you’re looking to hire a contractor, Support a new farmer. You can search this library and really help to support those businesses that might not have visibility in other areas. Another thing which I think we mentioned a little bit today is that we have our organic industry survey. We really are, at the Organic Trade Association, the lead Data provider on the trends of the organic industry, and it’s a report that we come out with annually in the summertime. So the 2023 data will be out in summer of 2024, and it really is a whole comprehensive picture of the current trends, Opportunities, challenges in the industry, and it’s something that’s free to all of our OTA members and definitely a a benefit of joining the trade association. And then events I already kinda mentioned.

Adrienne Messe: We bring the organic community together in in person and virtual events here in the US like organic week or other industry events, But also we take US companies abroad to foreign trade shows or trade missions to help them facilitate growing their brand in international markets because USC organic worldwide, honestly, is seen as a trusted A trusted brand. And so when you’re looking for a product that you wanna trust exactly what’s behind that label, Not only here in the US as we know, but in global markets, there’s definitely a trend to purchase US Organic products, which is super cool to put us on the map.

Donny Edson: Wow. Thank you.

Elisa Louis: No. Right? Sorry. That’s a lot.

Donny Edson: Lot lot of stuff there.

Adrienne Messe: We’re busy.

Donny Edson: I’m gonna chat a little bit of my history with the OTA, which a number of the things you mentioned off, I haven’t even been a part of. So Through a whole different experience.

Adrienne Messe: We’ll get you on board, though.

Scott Rice: Yeah. Yeah. I believe that. The opportunity abounds. I believe it.

Donny Edson: I mean, I’ll tell you that The first time I was introduced to the OTA was in 2012. And it was through the Colorado Department of Agriculture. And they said, look, we need some people To go on this OTA trade mission to Europe, to go meet all these people in Europe, and then go have a booth at BIOFACH. And I thought, Okay, what the heck? Let’s try this out and see what it is. So, we went to Holland and we got to tour so many cool different spots. We got to meet a lot of the big European organic companies and they showed us their business. They took us to their warehouses. We got to meet their teams.

Donny Edson: And then we got to go to Do retail tours there to see how organic was working there. And then, and it was several people from the US. It was really cool. And so, ultimately, what that led to me is a couple of companies from Holland that I’ve worked with since I met him in 2012 For international trade, both us selling to Europe and then and then us buying through them from Europe as well. And then it led to, actually, an introduction to a lot of people in the organic industry in the United States as well. So that I became close friends with, who we’ve been Business partners with since we met. It’s this thing, so. And then ultimately, we got to go to BIOFACH, which for all the listeners is The biggest organic food show in the world happens every February in Nuremberg, so it’s actually coming up in, like, I don’t know, 3 weeks, I think. 2 or 3 weeks. I know is I always miss Valentine’s Day. So, yeah. We all do. So, that’s really cool. And so, What OTA has done for us as well over the years has helped us with BIOFACH, which I’ll talk a little bit more about later on in the podcast as well. So But that’s how I got to know OTA.

Donny Edson: And so a lot of the people I’ve met and I stay in touch with both in and out of OTA Stem from that like original trip that we went on there. And then all the times OTA’s invited us to take part in different events as well. So I’m Really excited for the BIOFACH again this year. So

Adrienne Messe: It’s cool to to hear your reaction to that though, Donny, because I can’t tell you how Many times I hear that from members. We’ve had members engaged for very long like you have been and other members who maybe participate in 1 or 2 things or they Are constantly talking to Scott about regulatory issues, but they didn’t know we had these other programs. And so I think we really are working on a lot all the time. And there’s always something new to learn about areas to engage with.

Donny Edson: Yeah. I’m learning a ton today, which is why we’re doing this.

Elisa Louis: So cool.

Scott Rice: And I love, I love, Donny. You know, you really highlight the importance of relationships and how despite being a Sixty, what, $7,000,000,000 industry, this industry is still very much based on those relationships. You know, it It is transactional, but it’s relational, and that’s really what makes it builds the trust, it builds The community, and it really builds the brand of organic.

Donny Edson: It’s, to be honest, from me. From that community aspect, one of the things I appreciate is we might call Our competitors are friendemies, you know. We’re all friendly even though we compete, but we all do business back and forth with each other. And Ultimately, at the end of the day, I think our number one goal is to take care of our families and our employees. Right? So we’re trying to we all help each other out and we share information back and forth, when it comes to organic on who maybe isn’t to be trusted. What maybe you need to verify To just to make it a level playing field. And I think that’s one of the things we’ve talked about with the changes coming in March is, It hasn’t always been a level playing field sometimes. So it’s good that they’re bringing some structure to this.

Donny Edson: And that it is because the companies that Do it the right way and can stand behind their product. They sometimes are at a disadvantage from the people who just do it however they do it. So as well, but yeah.

Elisa Louis: That’s just such a great story, Donny, hearing you reminisce about how your first experience with an OTA Trip to Europe and everything and just what Scott just said. Here at Smirk’s, we’re just so passionate about building partnerships And and those long term relationships, it’s it’s a big part of our company mission. But with that, aside from that, Donny, I’m just curious, like, what are some of the other things that stand out for you when you think about the services and the support and the regulatory guidance that Smirk’s has received from the OTA over the years.

Donny Edson: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, first off, the BIOFACH programs, as they put together I have to tell a funny story because I just remember this from the very When we were all in this giant booth together, and we want we all wanted a martini. So somebody went and found, like, organic vodka, And then somebody went and found organic olives, and we came back and made organic martinis inside of our booth. So it was a great time. But BIOFACH of all places would be an easy place to source all of those ingredients.

Donny Edson: We have an wine tasting area with, like, 300 organic wines that you just get a glass and you go through and try them all. So it’s also a very fun thing. But so anyway, So the BIOFACH Program, they make it really affordable and easy to travel to Germany to have a booth at the trade show. So they’ll help pay for air Fair and they’ll help pay for your booth space there. So we’ve taken advantage of that several times over the years Where we’ve gone and we’ve displayed there, and we’ve met people from all over the world that we saw or get ingredients to at this show. Literally, I mean, I’ve met people from South America, from Israel, Europe, even Asia. So we’ve met different people there that Never will we thought with the business that we’re in, where we view ourselves as food importers more than exporters. We would be able to connect the dots on a lot of this organic stuff that we have over the years. So that’s been really cool.

Donny Edson: But in addition to that, I you know, there’s a lot of people from North America like us that go and walk this show To find ingredients that we want to work with or look for trends or whatever it is. And so, when we have booths there, we actually meet people from North America that we’ve never met before. So Some of my, like, favorite closest customers that we’ve met in 2012 and we’ve worked with ever since. So and these are great companies that same thing as us, so they’re walking the show. So, I mean, yeah, we have customers we’ve worked with over a decade that we’ve met. We go to Germany to meet somebody from North America, but nonetheless, it connected the dots from that piece of it. So I think that’s one one of the great things from the the program. And I know that there’s a number of other programs they do with Seattle and Anuga and Gold Food, and We’ve been invited to Asia several times.

Donny Edson: So so there’s a lot of programs whether you’re in the ingredient business like we are, or if you’re a brand and you wanna take your brand globally. If you wanna break into Asia and you’re an organic brand, this is a great way to take advantage of that program at a very low cost and then have the support of the OTA behind you to do that.

Adrienne Messe: I’ll just flag too, Donny, in response to that. I mean, I events are are always an awesome way to build those connections and have those conversations and keep Up to date on all the trends. And for anyone listening too who has a a question about anything in terms of these international markets, because of our Funding source through the the market access program. We have really close relationships with the foreign agricultural service offices in global market. Even if it’s not at BIOFACH or it’s not at CL Paris, if it’s not through a trade show, but you have a specific market question or you need to check-in with one of your Buyers or a company within that market, you can reach out to us and we can help you get connected with other foreign ag service people anywhere in the world.

Donny Edson: Yeah. That’s awesome. And it just goes on to my next example of things. So aside, you know, aside from the business side of things, for us, the OTA has been a great resource for helping us to navigate the rules Of being in the organic business. Right? There’s a lot of rules. When you’re talking about the farm bill, that’s a big bill. Right? I mean, there’s a lot of rules that go along with this stuff. And so And ultimately, nobody goes into anything wanting to break the rules.

Donny Edson: They may just not understand the rules sometimes. So that’s where we’ve We’ve been able to lean on the OTA, and they’re very receptive to jumping on and explaining something to us or jumping on and explaining to one of our customers with us even on a conference call and just talking through things. So we’ve been talking with the OTA a lot more about all the new rules that are coming out in March, which is the reason we wanted to do this. And they’ve been just a great resource for us to be able to give get information to pass on to our business partners, whether it’s customers, brokers, suppliers, whatever it is. So Those are just a couple examples of the of the things that I’ve personally since met the OTA, which originally was like, oh, a free trip to Europe. Let’s do this. And then, but it’s evolved from there. So

Elisa Louis: Oh, that’s awesome, Donny. That’s awesome. And I agree. I mean, personally, I Attended one of your, OTA webinars on the new strengthening organic enforcement, or I’ll say SOE for short. And it really helped me to gain a high level understanding of what Smirk’s QA team has been Preparing for for these past months, because I know they’ve they’ve really been hard at work to make sure that they’ll be prepared. So I can only imagine that, Scott, you and your team and the team on the webinar have fielded tons of questions. Your inbox must frankly be full of members reaching out to ask about this topic. But for those that are maybe not so familiar, could you Please kinda give us a brief overview of the SOE.

Scott Rice: You bet. Absolutely. And, Yeah. It’s definitely keeping us on our toes and keeping us Busy, there’s a lot to it. A lot of it is brand new to a lot of folks, but I think we’re gonna dive into some of those crunchy details, but Just as a real overview, you know, we talked about earlier this is the single biggest update and so there’s a lot in it. And, you know, in brief, it really it closes the gaps in where the regulations are now, And it builds consistent certification practices, and all of that adds up to preventing fraud, improving transparency, And improving traceability of organic products. And that’s not to say that wasn’t there before SOE, but It gives a lot more strength, just as the name says, to certifiers, to the National Organic Program, to the trade itself. And so, you know, I think it’s important to point out with organic in general, you know, this is The rules in came about initially because the industry asked for it.

Scott Rice: You know, we had a patchwork of Different standards state by state, region by region. And so many years ago, that industry, sort of nascent industry coming together said, hey, we need, We want regulation, we want a common rule to help us build this brand that we’re working so hard on. And so not unlike that initial push, You know, we were seeing need for some updates for some things that frankly were We’re maybe missing here and there from the initial rules. So this came from the community through the National Organic Standards Board that Adrienne talked about, Through requirements in that farm bill, also from areas where NOP, the National Organic Program, saw a need for kind of greater greater Clarity and and enforcement. So I’ll try and keep it high level on this first dive, but It strengthens our regulations in a few key ways. 1st, you know, except for a few narrow exemptions, It requires just about everybody in the organic supply chain to be certified. Many of them were subject to certification before, but this really tightens up Where those gaps existed for a while. It also, it requires exporters to and importers of organic products Into the US to be certified.

Scott Rice: And for those imported products, NOP, National Organic Program, NLP is a lot of alphabet soup here, but it requires import certificates for any of those products regardless of their country of origin or How those are packaged. And that those certificates will be generated in the Organic Integrity Database, which is a really fantastic tool that the USDA maintains of all of the certified operations that are certified USDA organic. And Again, all of these moves are to add more traceability and accountability in that system. The rule also requires Certified operations and certifying agents to incorporate supply chain traceability and fraud prevention into their practices. So as part of this, All certified operations must develop and maintain what we’re calling a fraud prevention plan, kind of to help Identify where where are the weak points in my supply chain and where can I most identify where that greatest risk is? Another change is the requirement that all nonretail containers, regardless of size, shape, or use, That those be labeled with information that identifies the contents as organic and that identification has Unique information that links the container to overall audit trail documentation. And that’s one that we’ve spent a lot of time on As it represents kind of one of the bigger changes in practices in terms of how those things are handled and labeled. Organic certificates are getting a makeover, whereas kind of the landscape has been Certificate’s looking different depending on the certifier. SOE requires that certifiers generate A standardized certificate from that organic integrity database.

Scott Rice: And that’s gonna be important because it’s for a couple of ways. It’s gonna simplify how maybe somebody like Donny looks to verify just what this company is certified for, where In other versions, you kinda have to hunt and pack maybe a little more or get used to this certifier’s format or that certifier’s format. This really kinda standardizes that so that everybody can kinda just be used to looking for where that vital information is. And it also makes it so that there’s less of a chance that that is, far less of a chance I think that those are going to be Fraudulent. It’s pretty easy. I shouldn’t say easy, but it’s there’s, In a system that was built on kind of paper certificates, you would see fraud on an amended certificate or a mocked up one, and this really reduces the incidence of that by having it both unified and generated out of Something that USDA maintains. There’s a few other little bits and bobs of the update, but for the sake of the audience, I think here and For what you all do, I think that’s the most the most applicable parts there.

Adrienne Messe: I just wanna elaborate too on 1 piece of that that Scott just mentioned. And by the way, Scott, like, we’ve obviously been talking about SOE for a long time, and it is a huge piece of work. And it is so helpful to hear just kinda like a high level overview that you just Gabe, so I think that’s super helpful for everyone who’s out there in the industry trying to figure out what to do by March. One piece Of a resource that’s available for OTA members and nonmembers is our organic fraud prevention guide. So A piece of the rule as Scott mentioned is that all certified operations now have to have a fraud prevention plan within their organic system plan, And we and but they don’t outline a specific approach for how to do that. They just say you have to have 1. But we created a guide That’s basically a 9 step process for establishing a fraud prevention plan by looking at your vulnerabilities, outlining mitigation measures against that, and then adding it to your organic system plan. It’s obviously a plan that’s ever changing just like an organic system plan is, but USDA does point to Our program and our guide is kind of the best practice for setting that up.

Adrienne Messe: So just another example of ways that our trade association can see resources that are needed by the industry, and we create them, and we have them available to you.

Scott Rice: Definitely. And sort of hand in hand with that fraud Prevention plan are we have a network of what we call trusted advisors. So I’ll highlight a little more on those SOE resources, but in Specific to the fraud prevention plan, we’ve got folks that have gone through fraud prevention training. They’re very familiar with our materials and these are folks We feel really confident pointing the industry to you and just letting you know you’re not alone. Like, I think a lot of people look at all the parts of this and especially, like, how am I gonna make a fraud prevention plan? There’s a lot of what you do in your industry already that maybe with Various food safety programs that put you on a really good solid footing to get these in place pretty efficiently. And If it seems like a big barrier or it’s a little scary, you know, we have that trusted advisor network. We have these resources to give you a leg up.

Donny Edson: Awesome. Well, I mean, with SOE in mind, I wanna make sure, you get a chance to touch on the key things everyone should be aware of With the March 19th deadline, the looming March 19th deadline, right, as we all have the hangover of XpoS, I guess. SMRX has held our organic certificates since, I think, 2011, I think, is when we started. I remember the process way back when. But With that being said, this one is new for this is new for a lot of our partners in the industry. So I think it’s safe to say there’s a fair amount of Confusion out there in the industry. I know there’s a fair amount because they just returned from a conference and I asked several people and they were very confused or shocked actually. So Scott, the question is, which parties within the supply chain will be required to hold an organic certification?

Scott Rice: Sure. Happy to clarify that. I think it’s made easier to talk about The exemptions to help frame what is required. So outlining those Is maybe the best place to start. And listeners, if you don’t recognize yourself in any of these exemptions, it’s pretty likely that you require certification. So with that, if you receive, store, or prepare for shipment product that is in a sealed Tamper evident package when you receive it and it remains in that same sealed tamper evident packaging while it’s in your control, you’re exempt. But You must keep records that demonstrate those products were identified as organic, that were identified as organic, were indeed organically produced and handled. Those records must verify the quantities of the product that was received.

Scott Rice: Then if you buy or sell organic products or ingredients in sealed, Tamper evident retail packaging and that product remains in that same sealed tamper evident retail package while it’s in your control also exempt. But same again, must maintain the records that show that products identified as organic were organically produced and handled. And that’s essentially, You’ve got, you know, a verification of that. You’ve got a certificate that says as much. If the product does not stay In that same sealed tamper evident packaging or you do other handling such as Processing it, repacking it, relabeling it, culling. If you’re treating or conditioning it, That often is the case with produce. You must be certified because any of those activities are seen as as what we would call handling, and handling Kind of spurs that certification. Now when we talk about I think there’s a lot of folks understandably that get nervous Who are transporting or transloading organic product.

Scott Rice: So touching on that, if you’re Transporting or transloading organic product and those products remain in the same packaging and you’re not doing any other handling, you’re exempt. If those products are unpackaged, say, bulk grain is a good example, bulk anything, The locations where those are loaded and unloaded, those must be certified because they’re gonna be handling those in ways that Maybe allow for that integrity to potentially be compromised. If you’re a transporter and you do other handling Such as combining, containerizing, repacking, packing, you’re treating it, you’re sorting it, Opening and closing or labeling. If you’re doing anything of those, of that nature, then that, again, Kind of puts you in that you must be certified category. The other sort of limited exemption here applies to Licensed custom brokers, logistics brokers, and freight forwarders. So if you fall into one of those camps and you don’t do Any other handling, such as selling, importing, or trading, then you’re also exempt. So that that helps kind of Put the outlines hopefully on where you might slot in if if you are exempt, but if you don’t, It’s pretty good chance that you’re subject to certification.

Donny Edson: Great. Thanks. Again, a good overview. I think starting with the exemptions is a pretty good way to go. My next question for you, Scott, which is, for those that need an organic certification, what does the process look like?

Scott Rice: What does that look like? Yeah. And just real quick, you know, next week, I’m gonna be in San Antonio in a room full of most Of the USDA accredited certifiers where they gather every year for their annual training and Conference. And so I’m going to be having a ton of these conversations and try and get into some of that granular detail of where everybody’s at. So it’s a constant conversation, but in terms of what does certification look like, you can kind of boil that down into The 5 steps of certification. So that first one, you need to develop what we call an organic system plan, An OSP, kind of like a business plan, but kind of like a sort of view of your operations. And it’s the the foundation of the certification process. It outlines everything you do in your operation with your organic product and what you’re doing to comply with the regulations based on your unique Practices in business. So these are they’re purposefully flexible in terms of adapting to your business, but it Must kinda transparently show how your operation is preventing, say, if you’re handling organic and nonorganic, how it’s Preventing the commingling and contamination.

Scott Rice: How you’re managing your facility pest management program. For a farmer, it might be how you’re managing water and application of inputs and whatnot. So You develop that and then the 2nd step is implement it and get that system going, apply for certification, That plan will be reviewed by a certifying agent. That review may entail some back and forth. It’s not just, here you go, done and done. There’s probably gonna be some questions and kinda clarification on what you meant by describing a particular practice, and they’ll be Just so that that certifier can solidly understand what you’re doing, it’s important to understand that the certifier’s role is to evaluate your operation. And while they can clarify the regulation, they can’t provide advice or suggestions on how to comply. They’re there for Like a technical assistance that helps you understand the regulation and what is required, but they can’t help you Overcome barriers to certification.

Scott Rice: That’s the part of the third party certification system that makes it sound. The next, you’re gonna receive an inspection. Once the certifier determines that that plan is compliant And they’re gonna send a certifier to verify that everything that you have on that plan has been implemented, that is actually what you’re doing, And that the practices that that that certifier or excuse me, that inspector, who is a representative of the certifier, That what they observe is indeed compliant. The number 4, review of the inspection report. So that report, Those findings are presented to the review staff at the certifier, and They’re gonna compare that to the system plan that you submitted and see that those things match up. That inspector will have assessed, sort of that risk of contamination from prohibited materials. They may take a sample. That’s a tool that certifiers use and test for prohibited materials.

Scott Rice: And then finally, at the end of all of this, a review decision is made. And so the certifier is gonna review that report. If they find it compliant, they’re gonna issue that organic certificate that you just worked so hard to A team. That process, it generally takes on average about 90 to 120 days. That kind of varies depending on complexity, depending on how well that system plan was put together or understood, Any issues that maybe came up at inspection. It is a it’s a conversation that happens throughout that. We’re 52 days away from March 19th. So 90 to a 120 days on average, we’re at 52 days.

Scott Rice: So it’s if you haven’t Applied for certification at this point, it’s pretty unlikely that you’re gonna make it. So and have a certificate in hand by the time strengthening organic enforcement rule becomes fine or it’s by the time enforcement starts, I should say. Now, the big but on this is don’t despair, don’t say, Well, never mind, I’m not even going to do this because You still need to do it and don’t delay. Start now. Get in line with the process and just Get that going so that at least you’re moving in the right direction.

Donny Edson: Thank you very much. I mean, how would somebody or, you know, if What advice would you offer to people that need to choose an organic certifier? Like, what kind of things should they look at or look for or ask about?

Scott Rice: Yeah, it can be a little overwhelming. I’ll grant you that. We’ve got, I think 70 plus USDA accredited certifiers out there. So I would say that the USDA’s Integrity Database that we mentioned a little earlier, they have a pretty cool certifier locator where you can find all of those certifiers. You can see the types of operations that they work with there that they have kind of a greater representation of in terms of type of business. You know, I would say, look at this as you would hiring somebody to do work on your house or just Start interviewing them. Start seeing, you know, what’s a good fit. Who answers your questions in ways that make sense for your business, That give you the confidence that you 2 can work together well.

Scott Rice: Keep in mind that that certifier doesn’t have to be Near you or even in the same state or region, you know, location might be a factor when you’re determining this because they’re gonna be sending An inspector from perhaps not their home office. It might be somebody who’s regionally located in next door or in the same county, but that can, if they are coming from a further distance that can of course add cost and Inquire about what that looks like when you’re talking to them. You know, that can kind of help give you a sense of what that cost will be if you kind of know that ahead of time. I think importantly, especially for a business-like Smirk’s that’s handling a lot of product And has a lot of moving parts, like you might have a greater need for review and things that Changes in your certification. So ask about what the timelines are, not just for the initial certification, but for, Say, issuing import certificates. You know, if I’ve got a lot of product moving, how long does that take any time that I need that? Or, You know, it just who’s kind of got the systems in place that that are most in line with what it is that you need? And right now, certifiers are admittedly pretty maxed out. March 19th is tomorrow, pretty much. And They’ve got a lot of these folks that we know are new to certification and They started coming to them, you know, last year.

Scott Rice: They’re still coming to them now. So I think A little bit of patience and a little bit of understanding that everything is really ramping up, and I think It’s important to understand, like, this rule became final about a year ago, almost to the day. That’s when everybody got the final text and Saw what it is that we’re dealing with. And when I say everybody, that’s you, Donny, that’s Asset OTA, that is importantly, that’s also your certifier. And so nobody got a head start on this. We all had a pretty good idea of what was gonna be in there. But in terms of those We’re all working on that same timeline. And so there needs to be some understanding of that as We’re looking for these kind of tough answers to the questions that we have of, you know, who is or is not subject to the certification? What does that look like? How is this particular thing gonna work in terms of those standardized certificates or that import certificate? You know, we’re all working together to figure that out, but I think Having that understanding as we work towards that March 19th date of we’re all on the same path is a little bit helpful for everybody Because there’s a lot lot of moving parts there.

Donny Edson: Yeah. And I know everyone in the industry is trying to prepare for this. And, there’s obviously Still a lot of questions. We’re asking them today to you as well. So, at Smirk’s, we’ve been working hard to ensure we were prepared. Our QA team’s been working the past year, as you mentioned, to make sure we comply with the SOE. But even in the case when you feel prepared, there’s still a level of Uncertainty about the interpretation and the enforcement of the new rules. So what do you predict will happen March 20th? And what should people expect going forward?

Scott Rice: Yeah. A lot of anxiety around this, understandably. And I’m getting a lot of phone calls and having a lot of conversations. And as Elisa mentioned, that inbox is filling up, but They’re all good questions, all good conversations. And I would say as hopefully some reassurance, USDA National Organic Program has been pretty consistent in their communication that this is You know, the March 19th date, while a date of enforcement and there’s an expectation to be certified and that we have all of our ducks in a row on all the things that are in SOE, We’re working on a it’s a process more than an event, so we’re still working through that process. And We understand and USD understands that while indeed enforcement’s gonna begin, There’s gonna have to be a little bit of grace and that folks who are doing their due diligence to get certified are Not gonna see trade interrupted to a great degree. There may, of course, be Some questions and additional verifications that might add a little bit of time, but I think the program really, National Organic Program in their communication With folks lately, they’ve illustrated day 1 priorities as they’re gonna review certifier control system Update. So there’s a lot in that I didn’t really cover in that summary.

Scott Rice: There’s a lot in SOE that addresses what certifiers have to do to get their systems kind of Strengthened and bolstered and updated. So they’re USDA is gonna be looking at at how certifiers have really done that. They’re gonna flag and investigate invalid import certificates. They’re gonna start warnings of Uncertified importers and exporters. You know, a warning is, I would say that sounds scary, but it’s really, it’s kind of education. If that warning is gonna say, Hey, we saw that there was this import. It looks like it’s organic. It doesn’t look like your exporter was certified or the importer was certified.

Scott Rice: Here’s what you need to know, and here’s what you need to do in terms of getting certified if you’re gonna continue to work in this organic environment. Beyond day 1, I think the next steps they’ve expressed are enforcement With non compliant certifiers. So the certifiers haven’t quite ramped up their systems. They’re gonna use a lot of what is an SOE is really Kind of grounded in in a risk based assessment. Like, where is the greatest risk here? We wanna put our energy and our Resources. We’re the greatest risk in the industry where we know that maybe we’ve seen some some past Fraud here and there, or we know that, hey, this is a high value commodity. There’s a potential that somebody might wanna take advantage of that. So That’s where the resources will be focused.

Scott Rice: The program will also start expanding kind of the flagging of the import certificates and a You know, stronger follow-up on that. They’re gonna assess that broader implementation of the provisions by and large. They’re gonna work with Partner organic programs to assess just kind of all those systems in place and that’s maybe with trade partners overseas as well. And conducting surveillance at the certifier and operation level. So the certifiers are there At least annually at your operation as a certified business, potentially they’re on an unannounced inspection. But what also happens is the certifier gets an inspection too. As part of the accreditation process, they see USDA At least they’re gonna see them every 5 years for their reaccreditation audit, and they’re gonna see them for midyear or a midterm audit, like, about every two and a half years. And so That will include USDA staff accompanying your certifier potentially on your operation And they’re kind of shadowing.

Scott Rice: They’re seeing that those certifiers have put all of those measures in place. They’re looking at the inspection process. They’re looking at the review process. It’s just another check. And finally, it’s enforcement. We’re talking about March 19th as an enforcement date. So I think when the program is seeing that folks are pretty, you know, most areas of the should be pretty well educated at this point. Enforcement will start.

Scott Rice: And that’s gonna be with a bit more than a warning. It might be, You know, they’ll use other tools at their disposal, but it’s really, I think we’re gonna be leading with a carrot, not a stick on this. As much as this has really given us tools To to really bolster and and strengthen integrity of organic, we want people to come along with that. You know, we wanna educate and Get everybody onboard before we have to take advantage of kind of that enforcement action.

Donny Edson: Sure. Still, Anxiety,

Scott Rice: as you put it. Yeah. So, yeah,

Donny Edson: I’d be a little anxious on it, maybe. So are there any other important changes that you would you you wanna highlight about the SOE?

Scott Rice: There’s some other areas, but I think there’s anxiety, there’s, people are feeling overwhelmed, but I think The rule’s here for a reason. It’s given USDA and certifiers and everyone in the supply chain kind of better and stronger tools To just really keep that integrity of the USDA organic seal and we want to protect This organic market. Donny, I think you said 2011 was when you got your certificate. You know, That’s a lot of work to get that and then also to keep it. And we wanna make sure that all the hard work that we’ve invested in this Is worth it and protected and we make that seal what consumers expect of it. And so it’s a lot, There are some big changes and it’s a big new thing to the folks that are new to it, but you’re not doing this by yourself. I think As we went through a lot of resources that are out there and, Adrienne really put a big point on the OTA resources that we have. And we’ve got that organic fraud prevention guide.

Scott Rice: We’ve got a really detailed overview of that import certificate process, And we’ve got a whole SOE page for members. We’ve done webinars, not unlike this based on specific topics or just a big Open round robin. We’ve had some great, a great webinar with Jenny Tucker, a deputy administrator at National Organic Program, and We’re here for the industry. We’re here to provide those resources and make it so that you’re don’t feel like you’re you’re alone in doing this.

Donny Edson: Sure. I mean, and a couple of things I can talk about from our side so far as this has been coming on down is we certainly seeing a lot longer lead time to add new organic products Onto an organic certificate. In addition to that, we do take our product to a lot of people and have stuff done to it it has to be added to their organic certificate as well. So it’s taking generally speaking, Really 15 to 20 days, business days to add stuff on. Unless you want to pay the expedited fee, which is $3.50 to try to get it done sooner when it’s expedited. And we still see that around 5 days. So in terms of planning, what do you recommend when a company is Formulating and needing to add new items to their organic certificate.

Scott Rice: Yeah. As we mentioned, certifiers are Working overtime right now and, doing their best to keep up on this. You know, another Thing to keep in mind is as this industry has grown, there’s been a lot of work to increase the organic workforce. You know, a lot of Work that I did when I was working on the National Organic Standards Board was to kinda really brainstorm in the industry and Get some recommendations on how we bring more people into that certification side to really broaden that workforce and Keep it there where we can meet those expectations. So just keeping that in mind that everyone’s aware that There’s a lot that’s needed and we’re trying to bring people into the professional pipeline to meet that. But specifically, When you’re working with a supplier change or a formulation change, you expect that to happen, but sometimes that happens unexpectedly. If you, as a business, can somehow build in lead times into your processes and kinda anticipate and buffer that As best as possible. I know that’s sometimes impossible, but best you can do to plan ahead on that And kind of account for maybe some of those delays, the better.

Scott Rice: So in all of that, communication is key. So making sure the folks in your company that are Drafting and creating new labels understand what the requirements are and what needs to be on that label or what can’t be on that label, What color that seal can or can’t be, the better informed and the better you’re communicating with them so that they understand that You’re gonna be in better shape so that that label is only reviewed once. You don’t have to pay to pull back a label run or Find out that last minute issue is there. So make sure sourcing managers communicate changes as early as possible so you can get a jump on those revisions that have impacts on a label change. And any of those changes, Just remember, those have to go to the certifier first before those hit the market. You know, in certification days, It really hurt to tell somebody, hey, we got a complaint or our inspector found an inspection that you’ve been selling x label for a few months now and or it made it into the market before we got a chance to look at it, and this isn’t correct. It’s kind of an insurance policy for you to run those through your certifier so that you don’t have to scrap that whole label run or Make an adjustment. So that communication all across the board in your company and as well with your certifier is gonna put you on solid footing.

Donny Edson: Yeah. And and I’ll add one thing to that too. I mean, as an example, we may use 1 processor to Clean and repackage 10 different kinds of beans for us that we handle. So they’ve been proactive in the same manner of bring us everything at one time. Whether you’re going to do it or not, if you think it’s a possibility, let’s just get it on the certification now. So when the time arises, we don’t need to do it. So There’s definitely been some who’ve been very, very proactive along this line. So I would recommend to listeners that are in business is similar to what Smirk’s does Or in other facets of things too.

Donny Edson: Over prepare. Do the items that maybe you may you may or may not. So that that’s not something that holds you up before anybody will touch it when you’re desperately trying to get something done to a product so that you can get it to the marketplace or to a customer to use as an ingredient. Just like imagine everything possible and just do it all at once. So it’s a lot easier to have it on there and not use it than it is not have it on there and need to use it.

Scott Rice: Absolutely. Yeah. Really great point.

Elisa Louis: Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up, Donny. And I think that if anybody’s working with Smirk’s and and they wanna Potentially add something to their mix that we’re involved with or they want us to be involved with. Hey, reaching out to us, being proactive, we can help with that process as well. And, you know, just 1 before we dive into the next because I have question for Adrianne, just my key takeaway and what we’ve kinda talked So far about SOE is it yes. It’s a little bit overwhelming and scary right now, but on the other hand, Scott is saying, look, even if you haven’t started the process, It’s not too late. Just get started on it. And don’t feel like, oh, I just I’m gonna give up because, There’s no time like the present to get it going.

Elisa Louis: And this conversation is kind of been really helpful on that point. I don’t think the Sky is going to fall on March 20th necessarily. There’s gonna be people there to support you if you need it, you know, as long as you’re working through the process. That’s kinda my takeaway.

Scott Rice: Yeah. And I think certification, I should have noted, it’s not as scary and hard, I think, as some folks maybe initially think. There’s a lot of systems that you have in place, again, with those food safety systems, with those standard operating procedures, just your business Practices are probably already aligned in large part with what organic requires. So Go into it with, okay. I can do this. Not a, oh my god. How am I gonna do this? You know, I totally get it. It’s a scary thing to first jump into, but You’ll probably be pleasantly surprised that there’s a lot of what you already got there that can feed right into what certification looks like.

Elisa Louis: Awesome. Well, you know, just on that on that point, you know, Adrienne, I know you’ve OTA has developed a lot of tools to help people. But If you are in the situation where you’re feeling a little overwhelmed and because you’re new to organic or you’re contemplating pursuing organic products, What advice do you say or what do you say to people that are kind of in in that circumstance?

Adrienne Messe: Well, listen, We totally get it. We’ve talked about being overwhelmed in a lot in this call. And, honestly, we’ve spent a lot of this call talking about the additional Requirements and paperwork that are required with organic certification. So if you are listening and you’re like, wow. Wow. This is a lot. And you’re saying that if I don’t go organic or I choose not to pursue a new organic line, I can avoid all this because that’s probably sounding pretty nice right about now. But I think there’s a few important things to note about it.

Adrienne Messe: I mean, it’s We’re not just requiring these things. USDA and NOP are not requiring these things just to make you do more paperwork. They’re really trying to add those levels of Trust and transparency through the supply chain to update those original regulations to make sure that they’re growing and changing to meet Not only the business owners needs but also the consumers needs. People are choosing to purchase organic. People are Wanting to make sure that their purchases are healthy for their families, produced in an environmentally friendly way, And able to actually prove that. And so I think it’s not only that these are just requirements in their paperwork and you have to check the box. But you wanna do those things as a business owner and you put yourself at a really big risk if you’re not. So just keep in mind that This isn’t just paperwork.

Adrienne Messe: It’s really a helpful framework to help you set up your business practices in a way that will help you continue to be successful. And at the end of the day, I think anyone who’s selling products wants to move with the trends of the Consumer preferences. And right now consumers are really paying attention to what the brands are doing and if it aligns with their values. And USD organic It’s honestly the best and way to do that with full transparency. So I think it’s obviously so much work to just be a business owner in general, And you have to have your 1st priority be keeping the lights on, paying your people, working with partners that you can trust, But really building that supply chain and the framework that this whole strengthening organic enforcement rule sets up is the framework that can help you be successful as a business owner. To have that transparency with your customers, but also continue to grow sales. The trends show that organic shoppers Purchase products at a higher price point, but they purchase them loyally. And we have data that shows that from our organic industry report.

Adrienne Messe: And so those are customers that you want, And you don’t want to open your business up to the risk that not having this transparency really, really opens businesses up It’s a pretty severe risk in the partners that they’re working with and the loyalty of their customers. So don’t think of it, as we keep saying, as This overwhelming, daunting thing, but really think of it as you can rest assured that your business is set up for success and is closing the loopholes, closing the links in those chain that are in your supply chain that Before SOE, we’re kind of vulnerable to fraud.

Adrienne Messe: I mean, you can do your own checks and balances. You can really do your due diligence in picking your partners and following your Product through the supply chain, but without these requirements for the handlers and every single link in the chain, there were opportunities for there to be Unfair players in the game. And you don’t want that as a business owner. You don’t want your product to be subject to that and you don’t wanna compete with people who are Making money off the organic label, but not really playing the game and following the rules like you are. And so It’s not just this daunting overwhelming thing. It really is something to help you set up the integrity of your business. And It’s a great point to just say get started. Like, it’s not like, oh, if I submit it now, the certifier is not gonna get to it in time.

Adrienne Messe: Just get Started. And honestly, the 1st year of setting all these practices up might take a little bit longer than they will in subsequent years. But once you have that framework, And then you can just continue to add to it. Continue to refine. Continue to to think about these things when you establish new business partners. So And then we’re here to help. I think Scott made a really good point earlier that we hear a lot. Certifiers are in a really unique position to not really be able to answer all of your questions.

Adrienne Messe: And that’s good because they’re the auditor. They can’t be the one guiding you through the process or consulting when they’re the ones who are doing the check and the audit at the end of the day. So it’s good that the organic certification process has those roles in place to keep those elements separate, but it can be frustrating when you’re at operation and all you wanna do is do the right thing from the start. And you go to your certifier and say, hey, I need to build a new fence on my organic operation, where should I put it? And they’re like, put it somewhere And we’ll tell you later if it’s gonna work or not. That’s frustrating to hear as a business owner. We totally get that. But know that we’re here to support you in those questions. If you’re an OTA member, you can call Scott and he can help guide you through what they’re asking.

Adrienne Messe: Again, he’s not a consultant. We aren’t consultants. We aren’t the ones approving your organic system plan, but we have so much experience with this and we work with all the stakeholders to understand what the common questions are. And so if you’re ever experiencing something like that with your certifier, first of all, you could shop around. Like Scott said, you can be working with any of those Seventy ish accredited certifiers, and you should do some interviews and figure out who’s best fit for your product line and your business. But also come to us, say, hey. My certifier can’t answer this question. What am I supposed to do? I don’t wanna get a noncompliance report After the fact, I just wanna spend the money to do it right from the beginning.

Adrienne Messe: And that is support that we can provide, and it’s support that consultants that we’re connected with can provide. So The answers are out there, just get started. And honestly, it’s worth it to be able to build that trust and transparency with your customers through the label.

Elisa Louis: Awesome. Adrienne, thanks so much for that. Hopefully, you’ve eased some people’s minds here. And thanks for touching on trends because that’s something I’m super excited about in this podcast today. I wanna hear about kind of the overview From your last, member survey back in 2022, as well as the Spinza Nielsen data that you’ve captured, To learn, you know, what what are the the trends for organic products that you’ve uncovered?

Adrienne Messe: Yes. Totally. And it kinda builds off of What I was just saying and that everyone should see themself in the future of organic. There is a piece of the pie for everybody and consumers are Choosing to purchase organic products, and I think all business owners want a part of those sales and they wanna be a part of that story. So So this data is important. You know, taking a big step back, we all grocery shop. We all think about these things every single day in our work and also just in our Own purchasing patterns. But if you take a step back and really look at what are the trends saying.

Adrienne Messe: My own observations in the grocery store Aligning what’s what’s going on in the rest of the industry. And so this is a report that we come out with annually. We do survey our members, but then we add Syndicated data from SPINS and Nielsen to ensure that we really have a comprehensive picture of what the organic industry Looks like and what the trends are, and not only what our members are reporting to us. So this is, Like I said well, like we’ve both said here, this data right now is looking at 2022 data, and it came out in summer 2020 3. So you can all look forward to seeing 2023 data next summer, which we will launch, and I’m excited for that already. But looking at 2022 data, the industry has grown so much. So we started doing this survey in 1997, and at that Time, the organic industry was $3,600,000,000. In 2022, the industry has grown to 61.7 $1,000,000,000.

Adrienne Messe: So that is huge, especially over that that growth period of, you know, about 25 years. That’s Big growth. The trends have grown along with that. We’re not only seeing just obvious increase In organic sales, but the data now also includes nonfood products. So organic is really showing up on all aisles of the grocery store. So those nonfood products are things like fiber, supplements, personal care products. So it’s not just food even though I think most people really think of Organic as a food label and it is primarily, but this data does include non food. And this data is really diving into organic sales, The places where organic products are showing up, brick and mortar stores, online sales, local farmer’s markets.

Adrienne Messe: These are some of the primary places where organic Products are sold and purchased, and this data shows trends and it also helps us as the trade association really engage in What some of the challenges are? What some of the opportunities are? And so that when we see these trends, we can say, oh, wow. Here’s a little bit of an area where we might, As the trade association need to put a little bit more attention to better serve our members. Or, oh, wow. This is a big growth area. We’re gonna be able to see a lot A lot more members, a lot more questions coming from these type of of product categories and sectors. So a lot of value of of the data overall. So to dive into just some highlights of what the numbers look like for 2022, 61,700,000,000 in organic sales, 90% of that is food. So that leaves 10% of for those non food products.

Adrienne Messe: But those non food products At 10%, it’s still $6,000,000,000. And so it’s really not small potatoes, and those areas are growing a lot. People can really Live a completely holistic organic lifestyle with their the sheets on their bed, the clothes on their body, the food in their fridge. So There’s organic everywhere and that’s really great to see. Some kinda high level trends in 2022 which are really important to note. In 2022, inflation was double the rate of growth. So overall, price increases in organic in 2022 were The primary driver and not increased products being sold. And so this also demonstrates that Those organic shoppers are really loyal shoppers.

Adrienne Messe: Even during times of inflation when money in their pocket is tight, they’re still choosing to purchase organic products and that’s Really great to see. So in terms of that 90% of that of the overall 61,700,000,000 in sales, the largest category is Always fruits and fruits and vegetables. So 36% of the total market is fruits and vegetables, and that’s particularly fresh produce. I mentioned that there’s also some unique challenges for each of these sectors, and some of these trends can kinda help Help show that as well. So for the produce industry, labor is an ongoing challenge for The produce sector and then also climate related weather events. So, obviously, growing these food on the on the farms outside is It’s difficult in a lot of areas where where you can grow these products. There’s a lot of these climate related weather events that have been hitting the industry pretty hard. So interesting to note and also an area where we can focus and try to help and support the produce sector in those times.

Adrienne Messe: The 2nd largest category, drum roll please, because it’s a little bit interesting for 2022. The 2nd category is Typically, dairy and eggs. And in 2022, it was beverages for the first time. So beverages surpassed dairy and eggs as the second. The biggest category is 15% of overall organic food sales were beverages. Coffee being the biggest category of beverages. And there’s a couple kinda key takeaways for this. People aren’t as price sensitive when they’re buying a beverage.

Adrienne Messe: I know I can speak to that. Like, I’ll see a really cool package and drink that’s $12 somehow, and I won’t think twice and buy it because I wanna Try it. The flavor sounds good. The packaging’s cool. And that’s kind of a trend overall in the industry. People are more willing to take a risk and Reach for that product at a higher price point in the beverage category. It’s also a really great place for Businesses to experiment with their product. So experimenting with new ingredients, new flavors, new packaging, New trends like lifestyle trends are big for the beverage sector.

Adrienne Messe: So just kinda interesting takeaway from that data that beverages was that number 2. So that brings dairy and eggs to the 3rd category. 8% of the organic sales in 2022 were dairy and eggs. An interesting note here in 2022 was that the avian flu was a really big influence on the conventional egg supply, but it actually didn’t impact The organic egg supply as much. In fact, it actually helped to kinda level the playing field in terms of Pricing because the conventional egg availability increased the price, and it actually made it a little bit easier for shoppers to Choose the organic, and there wasn’t as big of a price difference. So interesting takeaway for the that particular sector. So those are the 3 largest categories. It really is the bulk of that 90% of the food sales are in those 3 primary categories.

Adrienne Messe: After that comes packaged prepared foods at the center of the store, breads and grains, sweet salty snacks, condiments, and then meat, poultry, and fish. So That smallest category, meat, poultry, and fish, it still saw 5% growth in 2022. So like we mentioned, there’s unique challenges in in each of these sectors There’s specific to the product. Meat and poultry are really at the mercy of feed prices, and feed prices have been historically high. There was also some other factors in 2022 like drought, the war in Ukraine. The USDA has equivalency agreements with A number of foreign markets and they discontinued the equivalency agreement with India. All of those external factors in the global marketplace Really led to extreme spikes in feed pricing, which then in turn leads to to other challenges on the farm that need that feed. So, Actually, your 5% growth is a real victory, I think, for this category in the face of those external challenges.

Adrienne Messe: So that’s a high review of of the food sales, the 90%, the 10% in that nonfood category. Fiber is the biggest, so 40% Of the nonfood sales of organic or fiber, supplements is the 2nd at 34% of sales, and then personal care is the 3rd after that. So it is a little bit different trying to regulate these products that aren’t for human consumption. That’s kinda where the Technicality comes in that gray area that Scott talks about. So but still great to see each of those growing And for people to be trying to think about organic in more aspects of their lifestyle than just in the food that they’re consuming and the food that they’re feeding their families. So overall, it’s great that that organic is expanding in these ways. It’s really cool to be able to see these trends year to year Through our organic industry survey report and looking forward to seeing the 2023 data when it comes out in summer 2024. And just to mention too, this is really what I just said is a real snapshot of what that data looks like.

Adrienne Messe: The full report is a very, Very comprehensive report. So no matter where you are in this space of organic, there’s gonna be a whole chapter just for you and a lot more data deep dive into specific sectors and specific products for you to really see yourself In the future of organic as it continues to grow.

Elisa Louis: Fantastic. Thanks so much for those great insights, Adrienne. You know, I found it also really interesting about organic beverages pumping up like that. We work with a fair number of organic beverage companies here at Smirk’s, and I wasn’t surprised by snacks being pretty high up there, because that’s an area that we work with all the time. But on the nonfood side too, because Smirk’s is getting pretty involved with personal care companies, that popped out for me because we we work with a fair number of soap companies and other great personal care products. So that’s really exciting to see the growth there as well.

Adrienne Messe: Yeah. And I think that’s a great point. I mean, I think that, Like we keep saying, business owners kinda need to be reactive to what people are buying. Right? You’re selling a product and you kinda need someone to buy it at the end of the day. And I think that Consumers are telling us what they want in their products, and it’s that trust and transparency that this label really Does provide. And so it’s awesome to see it expanding to all aisles into these non food categories, and people are really Thinking in every aspect of their life, is there an organic option for this, and where can I buy it?

Elisa Louis: Yeah. Absolutely. Good stuff. Well, moving on, I kinda wanna focus Donny, I wanna put you on the spot here for a minute. You know, Smarts offers organic certified and non GMO conventional Products, of course, but we definitely skew organic. So, Donny, could you comment on the scope of our organic bulk ingredient business and its Overall growth over the years?

Donny Edson: Yeah. Sure. Organics continues to grow at Smirk’s. It represents about 65% of our annual sales right now Based off the numbers I just closed out for last year. So, a lot of the things you’re talking about being in multiple aisles in the grocery store, I was just you guys are having a conversations, I was thinking about a lot. I was thinking about first about my favorite organic oat milk that I like to drink every morning. My coffee, but also Not only with personal care, cosmetic side of stuff, but also in pet food. We’re selling a lot of organic ingredients into pet food, Whether it’s coconut or chia or, sunflowers or pumpkin, there’s a lot of different organic ingredients that we sell into the pet food market too.

Donny Edson: So we actually see that as an Every evolving market too on the organic side that a lot of people are picking up organic for their pets as well. Generally speaking, We’ve always noticed that people will spend more on their pets than they will on themselves. So it’s very interesting. Yeah. But, some of the things, we’ve noticed just Over the years, it’s been coming up in the industry. Kind of in an interesting time as we’re gonna actually take off too. But as the next generation of consumers is coming in to buy stuff. They care a lot more about organics, about what they’re putting in their body, What they’re feeding themselves, what they’re feeding their children and what they’re feeding their pets as well.

Donny Edson: So We’ve seen prices deflate over the years to have a smaller price gap between where organic and conventional pricing is. So Not so long ago, organic was almost double the price of conventional on so many items. But As increased farming and more efficient farming practices have happened over the years, the supply has grown and now in some cases the price is just Slightly different than conventional. There’s certain items that we import where price is minuscule, the difference on it. And mostly because it might be something that is inherently organic. They just hadn’t gotten the certification before. So cashews to grow in West Africa, They don’t apply anything to them. They don’t make enough money to spend money to find something to apply to them.

Donny Edson: Brazil nuts are collected. They’re not farmed, they’re a collected item. Right? So they’re collected from jungle. So there’s just different items around the world that Once they go through the process of getting the certification for organic, they don’t change anything they’re doing with their agricultural practices. It’s all the same. So, So we’ve seen that price gap close on some items and that’s been good too. So some other things, but overall, I mean, I just think that that really the is driving this and they keep asking for more organic items, which makes us ask for more organic items in our business, Which then leads people to look at the opportunity to produce organic as well. So that’s some of the stuff we’re seeing right now with the growth.

Elisa Louis: Very cool. And in the last couple years, have you seen any specific organic bulk ingredient trends here at Smirk’s?

Donny Edson: I mean, the last couple of years are so hard to gauge because of COVID.

Adrienne Messe: Yeah, for sure.

Donny Edson: All the data is so skewed. You don’t know what’s real and what wasn’t real at that time. But I can say that some of the largest opportunities we’ve seen in the organic space are around snacking. We’ve chatted about this on past podcasts and America’s becoming a large consumer of snacks with people using snacks To replace meals, myself included, I snack throughout the day more than I eat meals. So however, within the snacking space, one area we continue to see growth in is dried fruit. Organic fruit fits into this very well as it’s generally a single ingredient item. For example, organic dried mango is that. It’s mango.

Donny Edson: It’s nothing else. It is mango that has been dried. And we see more and more growth around the fruit category every year. And we thought 3 or 4 years ago, we would continue to see growth around that because it is just delicious, first off. And it’s pretty and it tastes great. And, there’s no added sugar to it. And thing and he’s still eating fruit. So outside of ingredients, I think what we’re seeing is the next evolution of organic with additional certifications or callouts.

Donny Edson: So, ROC, for example, the regenerative organic certified. That’s a certification that’s come on Pretty strong recently. And a lot of people are starting to get into it and look into it. And it pertains to kind of the next level of farming with organic, has to do with the soil health and how you’re treating the ground and everything. So, And I think we’ll continue to see more of that as we go along. So, These are just a couple of the trends we’ve we’ve noticed recently.

Elisa Louis: So great points, Donny. I mean, single ingredient organic dried fruits are definitely having a moment for sure. We get a lot of requests in this area and more companies are looking to incorporate them into stand alone snacks or added into a mix for sure. Now switching gears, just to kinda wrap this up. As you think about it, what are some of the key highlights since Merckx has joined the OTA?

Donny Edson: Well, I mean, and speaking of my experiences with the OTA, I can say some of the highlights have been most probably my favorites too. Being included in the trade missions to Europe, Which really forged long term relationships personally with people I’ve met and for Smirk’s business as well. So those are some of the best things. Access to BIOFACH and other shows around the world every year have helped us to meet more customers and suppliers. In addition to this, the OTA’s Been great in helping us to learn and navigate the changes coming in March. We’ve been spending a lot of time with them learning about that. So I do really recommend getting active with the OTA if you’re handling any organic ingredients, or you’re thinking about hunting organic ingredients. They offer so many opportunities and tools that’ll help you grow your business. A lot of stuff that I learned about today that I didn’t even know about. Even in our preparation for this, As we chatted, I just keep learning more and more stuff that they’re doing, so it’s awesome. So we are very grateful for the work that the OTA does, and we wanna make Sure our listeners know that they can reach out to the team through their website, which is ota.com for more information.

Donny Edson: And we’ll include links, The resources and our show transcript notes. So in summary, Adrienne, what would you say are the key reasons for a company to join The OTA.

Adrienne Messe: Well, first of all, I wanna thank you, Donny, for for sharing those plugs for OTA. They were unsolicited, but they Are well received and we appreciate your long standing membership, absolutely. But I also think it’s just helpful for other folks to hear Your perspective as a member and to hear the value that you’ve gotten out of it. And to hear that even as a long standing member on this call, you’re still learning more about ways you can engage with us. So Thank you. And thanks for including our whole story in this podcast today too. I mean, it sounds kinda cheesy, but we are stronger together. It’s easier to do this altogether than alone.

Adrienne Messe: I mean, even just hearing this overview of this latest update of SOE from Scott today, This is information you have access to all year long, and you’re not necessarily gonna get it from your certifier. You’re not necessarily gonna have time to read The jargon that is in these these official regulatory reports, but Scott can read it for us and translate it for all of us in a very way. So that honestly those policy advocacy regulatory support that our trade association can provide to our members is key. And the industry is constantly changing. So although this SOE rule is something that we’re talking about right now, what’s gonna be the next update? What’s gonna be the next question that the industry faces. There’s going to be changes. The industry, we want it to grow, but there’s new growing pains with those changes, and that’s that’s okay. But you can rest assured that we you have a voice directly to Washington in the government affairs department.

Adrienne Messe: You have a A voice directly at those national organic standards board’s meetings to make sure that your your sector, Your business is being accounted for as things are written, but also that when they come out, you get this really helpful guidance and 1 on 1 support with our team to make sure that you understand what it means for you and your business. So at the end of the day, it really is easier to do all of this together, and The voice of all trade association members is louder than just your voice can be alone as one business owner. So I hope that you all learned something today on this call about organic trade association, but you that you can also see yourself in the future of organic, And that you can utilize some of our resources to help ensure that your business can be successful moving forward.

Elisa Louis: Fantastic. Well, Adrienne, Scott, this Conversation has been very timely, you know, with the strengthening organic enforcement ruling coming soon in March, but it’s always a good time to talk about what OTA is all about and how organic products could be relevant for people’s businesses and what that looks like to get Into that process and and the flow of it. Thanks so much for your time today. The information shared here was just enormously helpful.

Donny Edson: Yeah. And I’d like to thank everybody at the Organic Trade Association, but you, too, in particular, because this was a lot of work putting this together and taking the time to do it with us. So It’s been awesome having you on the podcast today and we just we appreciate you both and we appreciate you joining us, so thank you.

Adrienne Messe: Thank you so much, Johnny and Elisa. We really appreciate your time today too in putting this information out there, and we’re happy to speak further with anyone else if they’re interested.

Scott Rice: Absolutely. We’re here as a resource and, just really thank you for including us. It’s been great.

Elisa Louis: Excellent. Well, that’s gonna wrap up another interesting feature story on Get the Scoop with Smirks. I appreciate our listeners hanging in. This one is longer than was longer than usual, but I think so much good information shared today by the OTA. So we hope you’ll reach out if you all have any questions for us at whatsnew@smirks.com. And thanks again for listening, and hope you come back next time.

Organic Feature Story with Dean Soicher

Garrett McBride: Hey there, and welcome to The Get the Scoop with Smirk’s product feature. Today, we’re gonna take a different approach for this segment. We’re going to talk about the evolution of certified organic products over the years. But before we dive in, I want to give you some quick background information. Although it seems to those of us that have been in this business for a long time like organic has been around forever, USDA’s National Organic Program or NOP was actually first rolled out in October 2002. When it comes to food In the most general terms, organic refers to products that have met specific regulatory standards including prohibiting the use of synthetic fertilizers, Sewage sludge, irradiation, and genetic engineering. It is worth noting that all organic foods are inherently non GMO.

However, Not all non GMO foods are organic. Today we’re going to go on a journey exploring the organic product industry through the lens of our colleague and friend Mr. Dean Soicher and Executive Vice President here at Smirk’s. Dean’s experience in the organic food industry spans nearly 3 decades. We’ll get Dean’s perspective starting in the mid-nineties when he worked hard to pitch organic product to the large and mostly conventional supermarkets and look at the growth of the organic category over the years bringing us to where we are now. We’ll also dive into Smirk’s journey selling organic ingredients and talk about what’s popular and trending today. Hey, Dean. Thanks for joining us today, man.

I’m super excited for you to tell your story.

Dean Soicher: Thanks, Garrett. I’m really thrilled to be here. I can tell.

Garrett McBride: Now we always joke with you that whenever somebody meets you for the 1st time, right off the cuff, They learn immediately that you’re originally from New Jersey and that you’re a vegan. Can you tell us a little bit more about your background and how you first got into the organic food industry?

Dean Soicher: Absolutely, Garrett. After graduating college in 1986, I became a vegetarian. I was greatly influenced by my friends and family. About 10 years ago, I became a vegan. I started working in the supermarket industry as a nonfoods buyer. One day, I actually opened the newspaper, and there was a job offering for organics food buyer, which better suited my lifestyle and my passion for organic foods. This welcomed me into a new career in the innovative and interesting industry I am part of today. I’m sure we all know, Garrett, that it’s best that you can work in an industry you’re passionate about. Organic Foods also runs in my family as my brother was an organic farmer in Hawaii for about 20 years.

Garrett McBride: And I can’t believe the path that led you here started with a chance opening him a newspaper. That’s amazing. You know, it really shows that things are meant to be. Certainly is. Additionally, an organic farmer in Hawaii sounds like about the best job you could possibly have. I’m in. Need to be connected with your brother. So I understand one of your responsibilities while working for a distributor was getting organic food programs adopted into largely conventional supermarkets in the mid to late nineties.

Garrett McBride: What was that like?

Dean Soicher: Well, in 1995, Garrett, I was working for a natural organic food distributor, and they decided to create a position to try to get Organic foods placed in the supermarkets on other mass market channels. I was promoted into this position, and believe it or not, back in the mid nineties, About 95% of the mass market channels, they didn’t want organic foods in their stores. They just didn’t understand This new exploding category, and they could not figure out how to merchandise properly.

Garrett McBride: Well, it’s amazing given that short period of time that we went from a 95% rejection rate to where we are today. You can find organic foods almost anywhere. Come a long way. Did you start to see a shift when retailers like Whole Foods started to grow and expand and offer more organic product choices?

Dean Soicher: Yeah, we certainly did, Garrett. Interesting enough, when Whole Foods and other supernaturals started proliferating the market and gaining popularity probably, between the mid nineties and Early 2000, most consumers went to Whole Foods and the other Supernaturals for their organic purchases, And they bought the rest of their needs in the mass market channel. The mass market channel then saw that they were losing sales, And all of a sudden, they were interested in organic foods. Not only were they interested in organic foods, but a lot of consumers as they came into stores We’re asking questions that some of the managers in the stores could not possibly answer. So we also had an educational program It taught them about organic food industry and organic definitions so they could help their consumers Purchase and make more better informed choices.

Garrett McBride: Yeah. That’s amazing. It’s a good thing you were around to to provide that level of education. Otherwise, this This whole industry might not have gotten to where it is today. You know, later in your career, you worked for a CPG company that offered organic products. What brought you from their Smirk’s?

Dean Soicher: Thanks again, Garrett. This was an interesting segue for me to join Smirk’s as I now understood importing and was more knowledgeable in what was needed. This would include food safety and organic certifications and all the documents required to import organic industrial ingredients to North America.

Garrett McBride: Yeah. That’s a complex process. A lot of moving parts and pieces there. You know, since you joined the Smirk’s team and especially over the past couple of years, What kind of growth have you seen with organic ingredients?

Dean Soicher: Smirk’s has set itself as part concentrating on certified organic ingredients. And we have the scale to be very price competitive with these items. We attend BIOFACH. I’ve been there for the last 4 or 5 years, which is the largest organic Food show in the world every year. The reason we go to that show is to keep up on trends, market information, and learn about new categories And products. In some cases, we can offer organic food for the same price of just a little more than some conventional ingredient offerings depending on the country of origin.

Garrett McBride: That’s pretty cool. You get to go all the way to Germany and support the organic industry and learn about what’s happening. Fantastic. What would you say some of the organic trends, are that you’re seeing these days?

Dean Soicher: Well, I think from day 1, there’s always been health and environmental concerns. I think a lot more consumers nowadays wanna see More transparency and traceability in the food supply. A lot of, consumers have also told me, like, they like working with Small scale farmers in the organic industries. And the interesting part too is even though back in the mid nineties, Early 2000, most supermarkets didn’t want anything to do with organic foods. Now it was all of a sudden, they’re doing a lot of organic private label products. I just found that very interesting as well.

Garrett McBride: Sure is everywhere now. These big retailers are doing a fantastic job of it. Very impressive. Well, Langston, those are great insights. This is super helpful. Sure seems like the future of organic food ingredients is limitless. You know, Smirk’s trades hundreds of organic ingredients across dozens of categories. It’s impossible to narrow it down to a short manageable list.

Garrett McBride: But gonna take a few minutes to focus on some of the key ingredients from Smirk’s portfolio. Organic chia, huge item for us. We do a large volume and we can offer it sterilized at origin, sterilized stateside.

Or if a ready to eat product is needed for a customer’s application, we can do that or we can it to you raw. Check out Episode number 7 of The Get Scoop with Smirk’s podcast to learn a little bit more about Chia. Organic sunflower is another item This gigantic and Smirk’s portfolio happens to be the foundation of what Smirk’s was built on. Check out episode 1 to learn a little bit more about that. You know, started early in our history and we import large volumes of it. We are a go to supplier for so many people for raw and ready to eat sunflower. We also buy and sell product of the USA. Organic pumpkin seeds, another big player for Smirk’s.

Garrett McBride: Coming from origins such as China and Mexico, we offer in both ready to eat and raw. Double A and single A grades are also core items for Smirk’s. Check out episode number 8 to learn a little bit more about pumpkin kernels.

Dean Soicher: Thanks, Garrett. I just want to add some other categories that Smirk’s is big in on the organic side. Organic coconut is definitely 1, and you can check out podcast number 4 for that. More information on organic coconut. We do sell desiccated coconut, chips, medium, macaroon, smiles. Smirk’s is also, very big in organic coconut cream, organic coconut milk, and organic coconut milk powder. We are industry leaders in organic coconut sugar, which can be offered as gluten free and fair trade certified if needed. We’ve talked a lot about organic food products, but, just to let everybody know, Both organic VCO, organic RBD coconut oil can be also used in personal care products, Which are be becoming more popular from the organic perspective.

Dean Soicher: Other big items that, Smirk’s sells On the organic side are grains and seeds, such as flax, sesame, quinoa, and amaranth. On the organic nut side, Smirk’s is a go to supplier for walnuts, pecans, cashews, and various peanuts mix. And lastly, and to include some dried fruit as well, Smirk’s customers look to us for organic mangoes, apples, pineapples, and golden berries.

Garrett McBride: Well, Dean, it’s been a blast traveling down memory lane with you today. Absolutely incredible how much the organic market has changed, you know, from those days when you had a 95% projection rate From retailers to to where we are today. Based on 2022 figures from Grand View Research, the organic food and beverage market in the United States Was valued in the mid $90,000,000,000 range. Globally, the organic food and beverage market was valued at just over $208,000,000,000 With a projected compound annual growth rate of 11.7% through 2030, unbelievable numbers there. Can’t thank you enough, Dean, for your valuable insights and for the experience you bring to Smirk’s. We all appreciate you and what you do and what you know and what you bring to the table supporting all of us. We’re sure you’re excited to bring more organic bulk ingredients to market each year.

Dean Soicher: Garrett, I really, enjoyed the time spending time, talking about organic foods and my personal experience on the call today?

Garrett McBride: Thanks, buddy. Well, for our audience, if we didn’t mention an organic item that you’re wondering about, please don’t hesitate to reach out. There’s a very good chance we can help you as our organic portfolio is broad reaching. Wanna thank our listeners for tuning in and encourage you to contact us if you have any questions or need any assistance with organic or conventional ingredients, Smirk’s is here to help. You can contact us by email at whatsnew@smirks.com. Thank you. We’ll see you next time.

January Market Report

Donny Edson: Here is your January 2024 Get the Scoop with Smirk’s market update. Okay. So unlike some of our last market updates, there’s actually a lot going on right now. Many things have changed in the last few weeks, so let’s dive into some of these. I think probably the biggest change right now has to do with ocean freight. The attacks to ships in the Red Sea has led to shipping lines stopping service in that part of the world. The Red Sea feeds into the Suez Canal in which approximately 15% of the world’s shipments pass through daily. The alternative to going through the sea’s canal is to go all the way around Africa, which adds 3 to 4 weeks of additional transit time.

Donny Edson: This has caused an immediate disruption in the availability of ships, shipping containers, and booking spaces globally. In addition, it’s made the price of shipping surge instantly. In some cases, we’ve seen increases anywhere from 3 to $5,000 per container almost overnight. Shipping lines are very quick to raise prices, and we’re seeing that right now. So we’re paying Higher rates for slower service, and this will cause a lot of disruptions. So, really, where it’s gonna hurt things a lot is Asia to the East Coast to the US right now. So Alternate routes to the East Coast from Asia are through the Panama Canal. And that’s been stressed for months as we’ve been talking about already because of the Slowdown of ships going through there because of the drought and how low the canal is.

Donny Edson: So there’s a lot of bottlenecks going on right now. And it’s not just affecting those ships that go through the Suez Canal. You have to consider that most of the stops after they go through the canal are in the Mediterranean. So now to get service from the Mediterranean, you need to enter from Spain and come back in and do it. It’s not a good flow of of ships moving. So it is truly a a global disruption that happened very fast. It’s gonna add a lot of time onto things. So that’s one thing that everyone needs to be aware of.

Donny Edson: There are gonna be shipping delays. There are gonna be increased shipping costs. It’s going to be very disrupted, particularly Asia to the East Coast is one of the harder markets right now, and it’s really hard to get bookings of stuff. So no one saw this coming. So aside from shipping issues, here are some other key dates and things to keep in mind. For this time of year, the Chinese New Year begins February 10th. So If you haven’t got your booking and your arrangements already made out of China, you will not get anything to ship out of China until late February or early March. It’s, At this point, it’s a little too late to get any new bookings there.

Donny Edson: So do look for if you haven’t got your stuff booked, it’s going to be a little while till you get it. If it’s going to the East Coast, then you’re gonna be battling what we just talked about. That holiday in, Vietnam is the same timing as the Chinese New Year. Most of the packers in Vietnam are booked Through mid to late March already, so it will take longer to get new purchases from Vietnam as well. Ramadan begins March 10th this year and runs through April 8th. Is a couple weeks earlier than last year. The state’s important if you are using coconut sugar from Indonesia. This time of year is when we see supplies Tighten up a lot and stress to begin on the supply chain.

Donny Edson: Indonesia shuts down for a period of time during Ramadan, so generally there’s a surge in demand for sugar after the holiday. After you might remember last year coming out of Ramadan, the trees were not producing very good quality nectar, and that led to the trees being very stressed, which then led to a lot Stress on the supply chain. So, it’s almost not a great situation depending on what the weather does right now in Indonesia, but I would certainly plan out if you’re using coconut sugar way, way out. Some packers, if you call them today and say, when is your next availability, will tell you that it’s available in June. So just to give you an idea, we do see the possibility of a little bit of issues with coconut sugar on the horizon. So Here’s kind of a current assessment of the marketplace for importers right now. Most importers have run tighter inventory And more of a just in time inventory, and this is because everyone had a lot of dead inventory after COVID and lost a lot of money. Then interest rates increased as did warehouse costs.

Donny Edson: So when you add all these things together, it made more sense to run with tighter stocks than it did to speculate and keep extra inventory. So that’s the 1st piece of this. There’s already a little bit less inventory in the US. The disruptions in the supply chain from the Red Sea situation mean that getting inventory to the East Coast from Asia is very difficult. So, that’s the 2nd piece. The next piece, we may see some very, very Tight and out of stock situations happening as we get further into the Q1 and into the Q2 because of what we just mentioned, less stock in the US, people are carrying less. All these Asian holidays going on where they’re shut down, so there’s no prompt shipments and then this disruption of the Shipping lines everywhere. So the Panama Canal backed up bottleneck.

Donny Edson: The Suez Canal, no one’s going through it right now. You’re adding 3 to 4 weeks of shipping time on. Availability of containers, very tight to get because now all the containers are going an extra 3 or 4 weeks around Africa. So all these things add up. So We highly recommend you work with your suppliers to ensure that you are giving ample lead times on everything and accurate forecasts, or you may find Some items are not available. So, planning is going to be very, very important, especially for the next, I would say, end of end of Q3 right now. Make sure you got your stuff lined up, so people have time to bring stuff in. What we used to say, you know, just in time inventory meant we may be ordered at 8 weeks from origin, we got to treat it more like 12 to 14 weeks right now for that.

Donny Edson: So some current market information. Smirk’s just visited the Peanut and Tree Nut Processors Association annual Conference in Florida. And I would say overall, the attitudes were a little bit more optimistic than past years, and I think everybody is upbeat. Again, a lot of the things we’re talking about today, we’re talked about there, but some major takeaways we took from the tree nut sector. Probably the biggest one that I took personally was that China has woke up. So, 2023 was the first time since 2019 they could have their annual autumn festival, which traditionally is a time they consume a lot of nuts and seeds. In addition to that, the Chinese New Year is happening this year and it’s for the first time since 2020 that the country has not been on lockdown. So This is one of the largest global events for the consumption of nuts, seeds, dried fruits, and so on.

Donny Edson: Meaning, for the first time in a long time, they’ve been buying larger volume of tree nuts, Seeds, pumpkin, and everything to be ready for this. In addition to that, the fall festival is also a time they consume more of that stuff. So that’s made a little bit of a change in some of the markets, so we’ll talk about that. 1st off, we’ll talk about walnuts. I just found it very interesting at the PT and PA, what we learned about it. So, Although we’ve seen a much larger crop and great quality this year, what I learned was the supply of organic walnuts has tightened up quite a bit and we expect organic prices to continue to increase. So, if you’re using organic walnuts, I would lock them up now and make sure you got some supply to go, so that is actually tightening up a little bit. On cashews, China did a lot of purchasing of the whole grades in the Q4.

Donny Edson: So, as we mentioned, feeding feed loading up for the Chinese New Year, loading up after the harvest festival, for the 1st time they’ve been in there buying a fair amount of the larger colonels. 2 40 count cashews have been very tight and now 3 twenties are starting to get a little bit tight too. So, New crop does appear to be very good quality so far, but things you gotta keep an eye on are, you know, increases in the shipping costs. The holidays in Vietnam and China, buying stuff that’s firming up the market a little bit. There is possibility of this market firming up a little bit on cashews. They have been trading at Such low prices, so. Macadamia nuts, in a strange change of events, the macadamia market, The processors, they did an excellent job of selling out of their huge stocks. How did this happen? Because, you know, we’ve been talking about how there’s so many macadamias, how there’s always gonna be some macadamias.

Donny Edson: Are the macadamia guys gonna do? Well, the biggest change that caught everybody by surprise was the amount of in shell macadamias China purchased again. With that, Kenya who’s always had an export ban on their in shell macadamias, meaning they want to keep their macadamias there to be processed in the kernel so that people have jobs processing them into kernels. But for the 1st time, they lifted the export ban of the in shells because there was So much carryover still and the price was so cheap. So to help the farmers, they did that. The prices were so cheap. The product shipped out immediately. Kenya ran out of in shell product. There is virtually nothing left there to process right now and so everyone is waiting on new crop.

Donny Edson: In addition to that, if you talk to any of the processors at this conference we just went to, no one really had anything to offer. Everybody’s waiting for new crop. So, they did a great job of selling that stuff out. So, what does this mean? I would expect tighter, more expensive inventory going into the new crop. There’s not much left. So, if there is stuff coming in that isn’t sold or committed to, It will probably sell for a little bit of a premium. We also expect new shipments not to happen until April or May for most origins. Packers will not be as desperate to let go of inventory, especially if China remains active in the purchasing of the inshell product.

Donny Edson: So, we expect the macadamia prices to firm up a little bit from those crazy lows that we saw last year because they were able to sell through all the old inventory. On Coconut, most of the major packers are booked into the Q2. Some are taking, shipments only in June now as well. So, Prices have firmed up across the board. Whether you’re talking about desiccated coconut or you’re talking about virgin coconut oil, we have seen the prices increase. So, Inventory in the US is finally getting lower and most of the very aged product is about gone. For the buyers who took the advice Last year, to book out as far as possible, you will be rewarded with lower costs that you locked in as the market has risen everywhere And Ocean freight keeps increasing. So, we are a little bit bullish on the coconut front.

Donny Edson: Coconut sugar as mentioned earlier, We do think this could get a little tight because of Ramadan. It is recommended to communicate what you might need Very soon to your suppliers, so they can make sure they allocate stuff. If we’re your supplier, please let us know so we can allocate stuff, because again, We don’t anticipate, this going real smooth with the shipping delays and with Ramadan and with El Nino effects still going on down there. So, Let’s talk about something good. Chia, very stable in South America right now. We do not foresee any supply chain issues from this current crop. We’ll be watching planting reports as they start planning to get an idea of the total acreage planted. But we do think there will be a sufficient carry over this year, they’re going to work hard to try to sell it.

Donny Edson: So that is actually one where the prices have probably even softened a little bit. The last one we’ll talk about today is pumpkin seeds. So organic. Organic pumpkin is rising weekly. As we had previously reported, the crop was a lot smaller this year and demand has been picking up. Stocks in the USA are very, very low. So that’s adding pressure at origin. Coupled with Chinese New Year and increased freight, we do not anticipate pumpkin price to go down until new crop in the fall.

Donny Edson: I know I was talking about organic mainly there because that’s the one we’re most worried about for the pricing right now. It’s a legitimate supply issue. Conventional Has moved up a little bit. There has been a lot more demand. Domestically in China, which ultimately drives it too, not moving as much as the organic is Still available, but prices have firmed up and ocean freight. Ocean freight from China has gone up considerably. So, There’s a lot to track right now. It feels pretty chaotic.

Donny Edson: If you look at everything from the shipping delays, the holidays in Asia, to shorter Stocks in the US, the market starting to increase. So be sure to get yourself covered and plan with your suppliers further out. Forecasts are gonna be very important to make sure you keep in stock with stuff. So, thank you all very much, and that is our market report for January 2024.

Garrett McBride: So that’s it for this episode of Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast, where we bring you the latest market reports, insights into bulk ingredients and their origins, as well as in-depth product information. So, if you have any questions, feedback, or just want a sample to taste for yourself, visit smirks.com website or email us at whatsnew@smirks.com. Never miss a future episode. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks so much for tuning in.

The post Transcript: Unveiling the World of Organic: Featuring the Organic Trade Association appeared first on Bulk Ingredient Network.

Garrett McBride: Hey, there. Welcome to Get the Scoop with Smirk’s Podcast, where bulk ingredient conversation happens. We’re sharing our knowledge and expertise as bulk ingredient importers, tapping into the latest trends we are seeing and commenting on what that means for natural food businesses as they approach ingredient purchasing, product development, and marketing. You’ll hear the latest market reports, ingredient specifications, and product applications from Smirk’s in-house experts, as well as origin stories from our growers and processors around the world. Listen in for the scoop on what’s happening with bulk ingredients.

Nick Erker: Welcome back to Get the Scoop with Smirk’s. I’m Nick Erker, President of Smirk’s. And today, my co-host is Zach Schwindt, a Smirk’s trader, and our resident vanilla expert. Zach is also a customer of Smirk’s and uses our Smirk’s vanilla products In his retail brand, Origin Vanilla. Today, we’re excited to share some insights into vanilla exploring the history, production, processes, origins, and trends of this fascinating ingredient. Zach, it’s great to have you here today on Get the Scoop with Smirk’s.

Zach Schwindt: Thanks, Nick. Yeah. It’s great to be here. I’m excited to talk about all things vanilla. And with the holiday seasons coming up, I think it’s the perfect time to highlight this versatile ingredient.

Nick Erker: You know, I’m just blown away by the size of the global vanilla market. According to the Globe Newswire report, it reports that worldwide vanilla market is valued to be $1,430,000,000 in 2021 and is projected to hit 1,900,000,000 by 2028.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. It’s a market with high growth trajectory. North America is largest user of vanilla globally, with the Asia Pacific region being the fastest-growing in terms of vanilla consumption. And France is the largest consumer of natural vanilla in Europe, so.

Nick Erker: Awesome. You know, you’ve got a lot of knowledge in vanilla. Would you mind a little bit about the history of vanilla with us today?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. I mean, in terms of the history, it was first discovered growing in Mexico, which is actually the only place in the world where vanilla orchids can be pollinated by bees naturally. Most vanilla in the world is actually hand-pollinated with a wooden tool. So it’s kind of a rare thing for vanilla to be pollinated by a bee. Vanilla first departed Mexico in early 1500s on ships bound for Spain. It was originally believed to have been only a perfume at the time, and it wasn’t until Tell Cortez arrived in 1519 that the Spaniards learned it was also a flavoring agent. It was then brought to Madagascar for commercial production when the country remains the largest producer by volume today.

Nick Erker: So coming from Fort Morgan, I mean, we’re nowhere close to vanilla. There’s no trees or bees or anything like that close to us that would facilitate that. So how did you first get involved with vanilla?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. It was during a solo backpacking trip through Asia that I met a group of vanilla farmers in West Java, Indonesia, specifically in the village of Cianjur and at the time I had been teaching English as a volunteer, and on the weekends I’d go out to the countryside mostly explore coffee farms in the region. I was very interested in coffee during that time, and I found vanilla beans growing alongside coffee and cloves, cacao, and. That was the 1st time I actually saw vanilla growing, you know, in the wild, and I had no idea that these green beans that were growing on a vine were vanilla beans, you know? I purchased a few kilograms from the farmers and bought it in cash and took it back home on the airplane. And when I got home, I started making vanilla extract in very small batches. You know, and kinda decided to go all in on the idea. Started a brand called Origin Vanilla. You know, I went back to Indonesia and met several other farmer groups in different islands, you know, Java, Sulawesi, Sumatra. I spent time with them during the entire process from pollination to curing and everything in between. And that’s what led me to get into the vanilla industry.

Nick Erker: That’s pretty cool. Indonesia is quite an interesting place. We actually source a lot of products out of Indonesia and, I can’t remember how many islands there are. Do you remember how many islands makeup Indonesia?

Zach Schwindt: Many 1,000. That’s all I know. There’s a lot of islands, so.

Nick Erker: Yeah. Man, that’s cool. So, you know, I was thinking back to how we first met, and we were chatting about it again this morning, and my son Cedar, who’s now 8 was only about 6 months old and I was going to daycare with your grandma. She was watching kids at the time and when I’d go to pick up Cedar, you know, I was hoping for like 5 minutes, Hey, good to see you. You know, thank you. And they usually turn into like a 30 minute conversation with her and she loved sharing stories about you and seeing about the different work that we did. And then we’d pass each other, you know, and you’d be out there shoveling snow or something, but little did we know that, our paths would cross again in This regard, but as we got through that, you know, Donny, years later, Donny and I we’re looking at a newspaper article that was written about you actually. And it was talking about a young man from Fort Morgan who started his own vanilla brand called Origin Vanilla and that was based around your travels and the experience you just described. So, after that we’d reached out to you and set up a meeting and soon after, I offered you a position here at Smirk’s, and you joined our team back in June of 2020 and have been a great asset to the company since then. So We’ve learned a lot of things together.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. Back when I was shoveling snow, I didn’t realize it would turn into this. But I’m grateful we crossed paths and it’s been an incredible journey since day 1, so.

Nick Erker: Around here, we love to say that everybody’s job has other duties as assigned. And lots of times I end up with the snow shoveling. But if you want to relive those days, I’d be glad to let you help out with snow shoveling later this year.

Zach Schwindt: Appreciate the offer, Nick.

Nick Erker: No problem. It’s the least I could do, Zach.

Zach Schwindt: Yes, sir.

Nick Erker: You know, what did you learn though about the harvesting and processing when, you were working with vanilla farmers? So it seems like there’s quite a bit of things that go into that.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. I mean, vanilla is anything but simple. Farmers, from the time you plant the vanilla, it takes up to 3 years before you actually start to see vanilla orchids growing on the trees, or sorry, the vines. So that’s a long time to wait from the time you plant a seed. And vanilla typically grows up other trees like cacao or cloves. Coconut trees is also a big one. Our Indonesian supplier now is launching a vanilla program, you know, and they’re gonna be growing the vanilla up their coconut trees actually. Vanilla’s rarely a stand-alone crop and usually grows best in harmony with other crops in a larger ecosystem.

Once vanilla orchids blossom, farmers have roughly an 8 to 12-hour window where they need to hand pollinate the vanilla orchid with either a toothpick or some sort of paper clip or sharp stick that they can manually pollinate the orchid. Once pollinated, they wait another 9 months before the curing process starts. And this is the process that basically turns the green vanilla beans into black vanilla beans that everyone knows and loves. So when curing, farmers will blanch the beans in boiling water for roughly 2 to 3 minutes, and then they’ll put the beans in a crate to begin a process called sweating. And this is a very important process, and everything has to be timed very, you know, to the minute in order to be successful. Once the sweating process is done, they open a crate after about 2 weeks of sweating, and they lay out the vanilla beans under the sun on tarps to reduce moisture according to specification. Once moisture content is acceptable, the vanilla beans are graded according to length.

Nick Erker: That is quite a, quite a lengthy process there. And, Smirk’s, we’d always kinda done a little bit of vanilla and been getting bigger in the vanilla. And then when you joined the team, I think that, you know, that really, really helped accelerate our involvement in vanilla to the levels that we’re working with today, but, you know, what really made you decide to launch your own brand along those lines and where do you sell the Origin vanilla that you get with Smirk’s?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah, I started Origin in 2019 and the concept was to bring the farmer closer to the consumer in such a traditionally outdated supply chain. Traditionally, the farmer would sell to someone else who cures it. That guy would sell to someone else who exports it, and traditionally there’s just too many people involved in the supply chain. So the whole idea was to bring you know, to kind of consolidate everything and effectively lower prices for the consumer and pay farmers more. But I mainly sell my vanilla at farmers markets, you know, in Boulder, Denver, Chocolate festivals, wine festivals, different events throughout Colorado, and I also sell quite a bit on my website as well. So, we’re stocked in a few local grocery stores as well here in Colorado and a few on the West Coast. But through it all, I’ve learned a lot Talking directly to consumers about their preferences also discovered a lot of the different beliefs and misconceptions people have about vanilla as well.

Nick Erker: So what what would you say is the biggest misconception around vanilla and what makes some of the vanilla that Smirk’s supplies a good fit for Origin and our customers?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. I think one misconception is that a certain geographical location is better than the other. I mean, It really just depends on when the beans were harvested, were they ripe, how were they cured. I mean, don’t get me wrong, growing regions do play a part in quality, But it’s really the technical side of the processing and curing that determines the quality of the flavor. So Smirk’s research investigates all the supply chains that lead to the products that We sell and ensures that all of our customers, you know, origin vanilla included, have the best quality vanilla available.

Nick Erker: Very interesting, Zach. Very interesting. Generally speaking, what are the main origins of vanilla? The geographical regions that the vanilla comes from?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. The biggest origin by far is Madagascar. They grow over 3 quarters of the global supply. You know, it’s like 10% of their GDP, it’s a big deal in Madagascar. You know, there’s countries like Uganda, Indonesia, and Papua New Guinea, who also hold a significant share of the global market, but they’re secondary players. And countries like India, Ecuador, Mexico, and Malaysia were also growing vanilla, but they’re not really, they don’t really account for a large share of the global market.

Nick Erker: Yeah. And when you and I first started talking about that, I found that very interesting because, you know, it seems like whenever anyone here in the office takes a vacation to Mexico. Our coworkers always say, hey, bring back some Mexican vanilla, but it’s not really a widely marketed one. I thought that it would be a bigger deal than it is.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. I mean, when you think of Mexican vanilla, you do find it in the shops in Cancun and that kind of thing. But in terms of food safety and whatnot, there is not a lot of vanilla with a lot of you know, there’s not a lot of processors down there that have appropriate food safety documentation that would be required by Smirk’s, so.

Nick Erker: Yeah. So we got to pay attention to make sure everybody has a good quality product in the supply chain.

Zach Schwindt: Right.

Nick Erker: So during the holidays, what are the most popular uses for vanilla?

Zach Schwindt: I mean, people love making their own vanilla extract. You know, that’s very common. Creme brulee is something people love to make with vanilla. A lot of people make their own beer at home, you know, use vanilla beans and stouts and that kind of thing.

You know, oftentimes pastry chefs will buy vanilla beans so they can cut the bean, slice it open down the middle, and scrape out the vanilla seeds inside, which are packed full of flavor. It’s also known as vanilla caviar, those little seeds, so.

Nick Erker: And to think I only use it for French toast.

Zach Schwindt: You’re missing out. There’s a lot you could be doing with it. I mean.

Nick Erker: Yeah. Got to expand my horizons.

Zach Schwindt: Just got to find an excuse to use it, man. It’s almost always appropriate.

Nick Erker: Nice. Yeah. So what new and emerging trends and products are you seeing that are incorporating vanilla?

Zach Schwindt: I mean, there’s breweries all around the country that are using vanilla. There’s certain companies that are using vanilla and olive oils. I’ve seen vanilla in marinades, which is something kind of interesting, you know, taking a more savory approach to it. Candle companies, we’re using vanilla extract, soap companies. It’s also being used more in snacks and trail mixes, protein bars, You know, several categories, whether it’s the liquid, the powder, people are using vanilla in almost everything.

Nick Erker: Wow. That’s great there. There’s definitely some interesting innovations happening around Vanilla, and it’s great hearing your insights and, you know, really jealous and admire your adventurous entrepreneurial spirit. And, being just 20 years old going off to Indonesia and backpacking to the woods by yourself to learn about vanilla and starting your own thing, and coming here to share your knowledge and excitement with us. So, if our listeners want some high-quality vanillas at home for the for the holiday projects you can check out Zach’s website. What’s your website there, Zach?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah, it’s just originvanilla.com.

Nick Erker: Fantastic.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. Appreciate it, Nick. I mean, vanilla really is my passion. I’m grateful to be doing what I love on a daily basis, so.

Nick Erker: Perfect. We’re happy to have you on board here at Smirk’s, helping to educate and guide our customers on the best most cost-effective bulk vanilla products used for their specific applications. And at Smirk’s, we see the vanilla category continuing to grow. We look forward to working with more customers to explore the many ways that vanilla can be used in your product lines and why Smirk’s should be the source for your vanilla. If our listeners have any questions, please reach out to us by email at whatsnew@smirks.com. We look forward to hearing from you.

Vanilla Product Feature

Nick Erker: Welcome to Get the Scoop with Smirk’s Product feature on Vanilla. Zach Schwindt, one of our Smurfs traders and resident vanilla specialist is here with me today and we’re going to do a deep dive into some fun facts about vanilla, some specifications that Smirk’s offers, and applications for vanilla to discuss the vanilla harvest, and also contracting for vanilla. So, Zach, to start it off, do you have any fun facts about vanilla that you’d like to share?

Zach Schwindt: Well, Nick, I do. I can’t help myself. I love vanilla trivia. So, here’s a few. Vanilla is the only orchid that produces an edible fruit, and yes, vanilla is actually a fruit. Vanilla is the 2nd most expensive spice in the world behind only saffron. Did you ever notice a funky design on your vanilla bean? Farmers in Madagascar are known to tattoo their vanilla beans with their initials to prevent theft, this is usually done with a toothpick or or a small stick or something where they can carve out their initials to basically tell other people, Hey, this is my vanilla bean.

Nick Erker: I’ve actually never seen that on a bean. Have you seen here in the States where you buy some and see?

Zach Schwindt: I have. It’s actually pretty interesting if you look at it because you can kind of see where the farmers will kind of they’ll go in and they’ll just put 2 letters kind of and something you know, at first, you kinda think it’s like a defect or something, but when you look into it a little bit further, you can kinda see, wow, you know, those are actually initials, so

Nick Erker: Tattooing each bean with a toothpick, that’s got to be pretty laborious. Yeah. That’s probably how it gets to be the most expensive behind saffron all the time to take tattoo and their initials on there.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. And I mean, not to mention, you know, at the vanilla farms, usually, there’s someone there, you know, 24/7, sometimes with an armed, you know, a gun or something just to prevent theft because it’s such a big issue in Madagascar.

Nick Erker: Wow. You got some other facts, though?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. I do. Vanilla remains, hands down, the most popular ice cream flavor in the USA. At times, vanilla can be more expensive than silver by weight, usually when there’s a shortage caused by weather patterns, which will usually happen a few times per decade. Nearly all of the vanilla beans worldwide are hand-pollinated. The only bee that pollinates vanilla orchids is the Melipona bee, as we mentioned, and it’s only found in Central America.

Nick Erker: What’s different about this bee? How come they’re only there? What you’d think that it’s a flower, so wouldn’t more bees just be attracted to it?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah, I mean, it’s native to Mexico, and that’s actually where vanilla was first discovered. So it does make sense in that regard. But they don’t exist in Madagascar, and they’ve tried to actually take the bees from Mexico to Madagascar and just weren’t successful. And they found it’s just more of a, you have more success having someone go out there and hand pollinate it because when the orchid opens for 8 to 12 hours, there’s a small chance the bee’s actually gonna come pollinate it. So having a human aspect creates a little bit more of a, you know, a safe haven in terms of making sure that it’s pollinated.

Nick Erker: So Zach, we spent a lot of time today talking about our natural vanilla, the beans, the powders, the extracts. You know, one thing that we see fairly common in people’s households is imitation vanilla. What about that? Is that something that people should be looking at when they’re looking for vanilla flavoring in their products, is imitation vanilla a good substitute?

Zach Schwindt: You know, Nick, I wouldn’t really suggest imitation vanilla. It’s not a clean product. I mean, it’s effectively, a product that comes from a beaver’s butt, from the castor glands, you know, close to the beaver’s butt. And the FDA says castoreum in food is generally safe, but the agency permits it in use and products under the label of imitation vanilla. So if you’re looking for a natural product, I wouldn’t suggest it.

Nick Erker: That sounds natural, but I don’t think that that’s the kind of natural that most of our customers are going for. I think that the offerings that we have with the vanilla bean is a lot better.

Zach Schwindt: Stick to the beans. Leave the beavers alone. Stick to the beans.

Nick Erker: Exactly. Oh, man. That sounds great. Well, glad that we cleared that up, because I know that that’s something that I get asked a lot as well. I got this imitation vanilla. Let’s just use that. So next time I’ll say no caster.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s also probably worth mentioning that, actual vanilla beans have over 300 individual flavor compounds, whereas imitation has 1, you know, it’s Vanillin and that’s basically 1 out of 300 flavor compounds. So in natural vanilla, you’re gonna have a ton more flavor.

Nick Erker: So a lot more depths to it to really help bring out those different, different things that you might be trying to highlight or note in a product. That’s all good information. I’m glad that we could let people know a little bit more about that today.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. Good to clear that out.

Nick Erker: Well, thanks for those fun facts. I think next time when I’m putting some trivia questions together, I’m going to make sure to throw those in the mix.

Zach Schwindt: Yeah.

Nick Erker: Yeah. As we continue to talk about this and dive in deeper here into vanilla, why is vanilla consumption on the rise? What’s driving that?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah, I mean, vanilla is used as an ingredient in a variety of ways. In the food industry, big uses are industrial chocolate makers. Of course, ice cream companies, you know, beverage companies, you know, and snack companies, that kinda thing. Cosmetic manufacturers also use natural vanilla, whether it’s extract or powders. And I think the trend towards more healthy eating has prompted a greater number of people to, you know, seek out natural vanilla and push, you know, some companies towards using natural vanilla instead of artificial in their products.

Nick Erker: So, you talked about several different kinds of vanilla there. So, what are the various specifications of vanilla that we offer here at Smirx and the different applications for them?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. I mean, there’s 3 categories, you know, that we break our vanilla offerings into. The first one is powders. So powders, you know, the first one would be like a vanilla extract powder, which is white. It’s good for coffee creamers, something that you need solubility. The second would be an exhausted vanilla bean. It’s basically the vanilla powder that’s already been extracted, so there’s really not any flavor in the product. It’s more for an appearance. It doesn’t clump either, so it’s good for ice cream companies.

Nick Erker: Is that what those specs are in vanilla ice cream?

Zach Schwindt: Yes. So if you have vanilla ice cream and you’re looking at those little specs, those are typically exhausted vanilla beans, and then they’ll flavor it with extract.

Nick Erker: I thought that actually made it taste different. I guess I was fooled. They’ll fool you. Yeah.

Zach Schwindt: And then 3rd powder that we offer is the whole vanilla bean ground into powder. So it’s just a fresh ground vanilla bean. It’s a low-moisture product. It’s dirty mesh powder. It’s good for chocolates, granolas. It can be used for both flavor and appearance. It’s also using some cosmetics. There’s some bath bomb companies who have approached us for it, so kind of a diverse ingredient in that in that regard. In the liquid category, sorry.

Nick Erker: Yeah. No. So, I was gonna ask, so we’ve talked about the powders. What else do we offer in the form of vanilla?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah. I mean, liquids would be the other big category, which is typically vanilla extract. And there’s several different types of vanilla extracts, and they can be broken down by origins. So, you know, some people like to market their ice cream Madagascar vanilla ice cream, then we’d sell them a Madagascar vanilla extract. Same thing goes with Ugandan, Indonesian,you know, Papua New Guinea, so the single origin vanilla extracts, and then there’s also different folds of vanilla, which is basically the strength. So, FDA is basically the one who sets the standard for the formulas of the extracts. So single fold is the most common and when you go to the grocery store, that’s what you’re gonna buy is a single fold. So the formula of that is 13 and 1/2 ounces per gallon of liquid, which is 128 fluid ounces, and that liquid must be 35% alcohol minimum.

So single fold is basically the most common vanilla. It’s used by most food companies. It’s the lowest cost as well. Double fold is basically twice as strong in terms of the flavor, so there’s 27 ounces per gallon of liquid. Uses for double fold would be, you know, something like ice cream, stuff like frosting, where maybe you don’t want too much liquid and you’re sensitive to liquids. Beverage companies as well will use double full just because you can add less overall liquid with basically twice the flavor. So it’s not double the price typically, but it can be a great value for the right application.

Nick Erker: This is twice the strength.

Zach Schwindt: Exactly. You’re getting twice as much vanilla flavor in the same amount of liquid. And the folds go all the way up to 10 fold, which is typically used for perfumes and essential oils, that kind of thing. And the 3rd category of vanilla is the whole vanilla bean, And these can be broken down by different grades. So the first would be gourmet grade, which is also known as grade A. This is long, moist, very beautiful vanilla beans, kind of what you’re looking for when you go and go to the grocery store and try to find a vanilla bean. These are good for making creme brulee, making Kahlua, making chocolates. If you’re looking for the vanilla caviar on the inside, you definitely want to go with a gourmet grade.

Nick Erker: So, how would you go about making a Kahlua? Have you done that yourself?

Zach Schwindt: You know, Nick, I actually haven’t done that myself, but when I’m selling vanilla at the farmer’s markets when someone comes and tries to buy a vanilla bean from me, I always ask, what are you doing with your vanilla bean and Kahlua seems to be very common. So, it seems to be very common around the holidays too.

Nick Erker: You know, we do, some occasional craft nights around the office. Maybe, we should have our own Kahlua making one of these things. I like that. That sounds like a good craft night.

Zach Schwindt: I’ll I’ll be, the taste tester.Yeah. But the 2nd grade of vanilla would be extract grade. So these typically have some minor defects, maybe they’re not perfectly uniform in shape, and they’re good for making extracts, you know, kind of like as the name suggests, or grinding into vanilla bean powder. And then there’s chopped vanilla beans, which some breweries like their beans already chopped because it’s easy for them to throw into their percolators or whatever they’re doing. So, chopped vanilla beans is actually one of the more common items that we sell here at Smirk’s as well.

Nick Erker: So, with all these different origins, as you know, you’ve talked about a lot of different origins that produce the different beans here, Is there a seasonality to vanilla in a time when people should be thinking about maybe purchasing or contracting vanilla? And when does it harvest it?

Zach Schwindt: I mean, since it varies a bit by origin, I can touch on the harvest for some of the major vanilla origins. Madagascar, the world’s largest vanilla producer, typically harvests starts in July, August with the curing and September timeframe and shipments will start coming out October. Madagascar product is much more regulated in the industry, since it accounts for about 10% of Madagascar’s GDP, so the government will set rules of when you can harvest, when you start curing, when you export, it’s all very controlled, and that’s pretty much done just to keep Madagascar’s name as the premium vanilla producer of the world. Indonesia and Papua New Guinea, 2 other major players. Harvest typically will start in August, September, with shipments coming out in October as well. Indonesia is a bit less regulated, so farmers occasionally can harvest our beans a bit prematurely, which can lead to some off flavors. So it’s extremely important to make sure you have suppliers who you can trust and that you ensure the product is mature when it’s harvested.

Nick Erker: What kind of off-flavor would, an immature bean produce?

Zach Schwindt: You’ll find notes of sourness.

Nick Erker: Okay.

Zach Schwindt: Typically when you smell vanilla, it’s that bold, rich flavor that you just wanna keep on smelling. And when you smell of premature bean, you’ll have some notes of sort of some sourness and, just notes that you don’t want, so. In Sulawesi, you know, which is an island in Northern Indonesia on the Northern Hemisphere, they have a different harvest cycle. So they, you know, they start harvesting in April, May, and then shipments will start coming out in July usually.

Nick Erker: Very cool. Thanks for enlightening us on that. So it seems like most of it is going to be harvested in the summertime for the northern hemisphere. So with that in mind, when is the best time to contract vanilla if people are looking to contract vanilla to get the best pricing?

Zach Schwindt: Yeah, I think the best time to contract would be the fall since that’s when Madagascar’s crop is coming Now, this is when buyers will have the best understanding of what the global market looks like. So I would say fall September, August is the best time to be contracting.

Nick Erker: So, what are you seeing right now for the 2023 harvest as we go into 24? We’re kind of past the harvest here, but what were the supplies like this year?

Zach Schwindt: In general, there’s a lot of oversupply in the market right now. Everyone is pretty well stocked. It seems farmers are having a bit of a hard time selling their crop. It’s a very sharp contrast to 2017 when prices were $300, $400 a kilo. You know, it takes 3 years for vanilla beans to mature, so it’s a long wait and things can change relatively fast. If there’s a, you know, a typhoon in Madagascar, prices can shoot up $100 a kilo in a month, you know, that kind of thing. But overall, it’s a good time to add vanilla to your product line because prices are relatively flat and America loves vanilla.

Nick Erker: This has been very informative, Zach. I’d really appreciate you educating us today about vanilla. And You know, I think, we could probably spend a lot more time talking about this in different applications and, you know, I’m really looking forward to our Kahlua craft night here. But, you know, I think that that that about wraps up our product feature today on vanilla. And if you’re looking for innovation with vanilla or just need to secure your needs, Smirk’s is here to explore different options to help you get samples, specifications, and the best pricing available. We can discuss what will work best for you and a particular application. So please reach out to us at whatsnew@smirks.com if you have any questions about our vanilla or any of our other ingredients. Thank you very much for taking the time to listen to our podcast and we look forward to seeing you next time on Get the Scoop with Smirk’s.

November Market Report

Donny Edson: Here is the Get the Scoop with Smirk’s November market report. To begin with, I think we need to chat about what’s going on in Panama as this is affecting shipment times. The Panama Canal is limiting the amounts of ships each day through the canal and making the ships lighter to get them through the canal. Some containers are being offloaded and railed across. Other vessels are being limited on the weight they can allow through. We’re continuously seeing anywhere from 2 to 4 week delays in the canal. This is a result of a lack of rain there and the canal being low and not having enough water to be full to be able to have the heavier ships on there. So, this is something we’re watching very closely as it is affecting the shipment times.

In regards to commodities and markets, one word that really sticks out is stable. A lot of markets are very stable at the moment and we are seeing prices maintain the same levels for several weeks in a row. There are a couple of exceptions that we’ll talk about, but overall, things feel very good at the moment without too many concerns. To begin with sunflower, sunflower is showing stability globally and prices remain stable and are much less than they were a couple years ago. The USA and Bulgaria both have products readily available to ship. Organic has also stabilized and shows no signs of going up at the moment. Sunflower oil remains very stable at the moment too.

In Paraguay, chia has remained stable as well as the rush of new crop shipments have found their way out of the country. The only real issues have been transit times to the West Coast because of the Panama Canal. The crop was very good and growing conditions were very good in Paraguay this year and we anticipate prices remaining where they are for at least the next 2 to 3 months with maybe a little movement one way or the other, but nothing major. Even though the crop in Paraguay was between 50 and 55,000 metric tons, they’re still shipping anywhere from 6 to 8,000 metric tons per month, so we could see things get tight at the end of the crop if the shipment numbers continue. However, it does feel as though the market is getting caught up and sap demand has slowed down inside the US.

From Indonesia, coconut sugar shipments have caught up and things are normalizing somewhat there, although they are still battling dry conditions which have been going on longer than usual. One thing to keep in mind is that Ramadan is a little earlier this year going from March 10th through April 8th. During Ramadan, Indonesia goes offline and it’s important to keep this in mind for your needs for the end of Q1 and into Q2. Remember that last year coming out of Ramadan is when El Nino really started to affect the quality of the sap made the slowdown on the sugar that we’re just catching up from now.

In regards to coconut, the market’s quite stable at the moment. Although suppliers desperately need prices to increase to be profitable in producing coconut. In the Philippines, some packers are booked into February as customers are booking out as far as possible to take advantage of the good prices. Other suppliers in the Philippines are able to offer shipments still in 2023. Vietnam has been shipping quite a bit of product into China, and that’s helped maintain a higher price there that makes them not as competitive in the US. Indonesia has been the most aggressive price origin for shipments from November through February 2024. Overall, we do not expect any major changes in the coconut market and we still encourage customers to book out as far as possible to take advantage of these prices.

A few areas of concern mostly pertain to South America. 1st off is organic mango. We’re right in the beginning of the new crop harvest for organic mango. El Nino has really been wreaking havoc on the new crop in Peru this year. Raw material prices have gone up considerably and the prices continue to increase on organic mango. This is 1 item we are still bullish on right now as there’s a true issue with the raw material used to make the product. Keep in mind that Mexico’s harvest won’t come on until May or June of next year. Smirk’s has limited stock on the East Coast and good stock on the West Coast. However, once we sell out, we will not get any more product in until April.

Another area item from South America that’s been tough this year has been organic quinoa. Prices continue to remain firm on this item, although we’ve seen a little backing off the highs that the market hit a few weeks ago. The crop shortage in Peru was real and prices kept creeping up for several weeks. We’re seeing prices from origin trading anywhere from 30 to 40% higher than a few months ago. It’s also important to note that there’s very little organic quinoa available from Peru now as many suppliers are getting positive pesticide hits on the product. Although the prices have been very high, demand is still not been as high for this product in the USA as most of the major customers had already had themselves covered on this. However, spot pricing will maintain high levels. If you’re not covered, it’s recommended to buy what you need until new crop. Don’t overbook. Just keep buying spot as you need it until we have a good idea of how things are gonna look for the new crop this year.

One other ancient grain that we’re watching really closely is organic amaranth. India, for the most part, has ran out of organic amaranth this year, and this has caused people to turn to South America. The demand for South American product has in turn increased the price from this region. India’s new harvest is in April, so we will not see product arriving into the US until June or July at the soonest. Importers are getting very low on stock, and this again is adding pressure to the South American market. We do recommend getting coverage on the books through July on this item.

In regards to tree nuts, again, stable is pretty good word for them. At the moment, cashews remain very stable, new crops not far off and there have been no indications that prices will have a dramatic swing one way or another. We only see the markets move around 2 to 3% up, down, or stay right where they’re at right now. Organic walnuts are trading about 10% higher than they were last year. Farmers and processors needed more money to keep afloat. They’re still trading at very good levels, but they are not as low as they were last year. Also, the crop this year has a lot of light product, which is good. Last year, we had the sunburn on the product when it got too hot before harvest. So we do see the quality going to be good this year as the new crop starts come in.

Macadamias have rebounded from the lows that we saw last year and many major origins have been able to sell out or get a good position sold on their nuts. Kenya still has a lot of product to offer though, and we still see reasonable pricing from this area. On the organic side, macadamia nuts, we are seeing limited offers on broken grades such as style 4 and style 6. A lot more offers on bigger grades like style 1s and style 2s. We do think that the broken grades will remain tight until the new crop comes in February March when they start to process new crop.

From China, pumpkin seeds. After a few weeks of volatility, the markets maintain the same pricing for the last 3 weeks. Although the prices anywhere from 8 to 10% higher than the lows we saw earlier in the season, they are stable. The strongest increase in risk still lies in organic product.

The organic crop was hurt by weather during harvest and was already a smaller crop. We do anticipate organic to remain a bit more volatile than the conventional this year. And that concludes our November market report for Get the Scoop with Smirk’s.

Garrett McBride: So that’s it for this episode of Get the Scoop with Smirk’s podcast, where we bring you the latest market reports, insights into bulk ingredients and their origins, as well as in-depth product information. So if you have any questions, feedback, or just want a sample to taste for yourself, visit the smirks.com website or email us at whatsnew@smirks.com. Never miss a future episode. Be sure to hit the subscribe button wherever you listen to your podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in.

The post Transcript: Vanilla History, Origins, Applications & Trends appeared first on Bulk Ingredient Network.